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March 29, 2010 11:20 p.m. Rufledt Reader

Saturday I went to a dealership nearby to test drive an Evo X with the prospect of buying one in a couple months. Turns out i ended up buying an RX-8 R3 . Go figure eh? Well actually i tested an RX8 a few days earlier and had an idea that i might go that way... Anyhoo its a 2009 so i got an insane deal with all the rebates plus a bunch off on top of that, and an extended warrantee and all that stuff that's not very interesting when you're holding the keys to a new car. pic:

I'm super excited about it and i put like 30 miles on today after i picked it up at 5. What i would like to know is any information you guys have for me to do proper maintainance. i know it uses oil and i need to check it when i gas up, the manual says 5w20 but the service guy at the dealership stressed not getting synthetic oil. then there is the shut off thing. the manual says not to shut it off until it warms up, the service guy at the dealership says if i need to shut it off before it warms up i should rev it to 3K and hold it there for 12 seconds, and the saleslady said to always rev to 5-6K for 3 seconds, blip the throttle and then let idle for 3 seconds before shutting it off. what would you guys recommend? anything else a rotary noob should know? i ask especially because i've alwasy been interested in rotaries but never really researched them because i didn't think i was gonna buy one, and here i am. Thanks for your help guys! -Paul
March 29, 2010 11:47 p.m. unevolved Reader

Never ever ever drive it a short distance and shut it off without letting it properly warm up. I'm not 100% sure if RX-8s are the same way, but RX7s will flood. And unlike a piston engine, they won't unflood themselves when left alone.

Make sure and redline it once a day. You know, to clear the carbon out.

Keep an eye on the oil levels, it's natural for them to burn oil, they use oil to cool the rotor faces.

I'm a new rotorhead too (my car's about 25 years older than yours, though) and those are some things I've learned that should apply to yours too.
March 30, 2010 5:42 a.m. Mazdax605 Reader

All I can say is that car is absolute crap,and you should give it to me so you don't have to put up with it.

Seriously sweet car man. I had an 04 in Nordic Green for 1 year on a lease,and I loved it. Yours is way cooler in that colour, and the R3 package is sweet. The front grille/bumper looks different than mine did. Did Mazda update the body some over the years,or is that part of the R3 package?

Someday I will get another one in white this time,but that blue is changing my thinking a bit. Good luck,and rev the snot out of it.

Chris 78 RX-7 GS,74 REPU,74 RX-4 coupe
March 30, 2010 6:37 a.m. BoxheadTim Dork

The synthetic vs non-synthetic discussion is one a good way to start the Mother Of All Flamewars on most rotary forums. I'll stay out of that and just mention that if you want to use synthetic, make sure that it's low-ash when it burns.

As the other say, don't start it for a minute, then turn it off, it's a good way to flood it. Warm up thoroughly, redline regularly, keep an eye on the oil level, job's a good 'un.
March 30, 2010 7:35 a.m. RossD Dork

Sweet car. I didnt think a modern fuel injection system could flood an engine piston or otherwise?
March 30, 2010 7:38 a.m. BoxheadTim Dork

It very well can on a rotary. They dump large amounts of fuel in to get the engine going, due to the combustion chamber shape.
March 30, 2010 7:57 a.m. pilotbraden New Reader

I have a2009 rx-8 and a 1985 rx-7. I have flooded the rx-7. The procedure for shut down while cold is to hold 3000-4000 rpm 2-3 seconds then shut down without changing throttle position. I have never had a problem with the rx-8 using this procedure after driving 7-8 blocks and stopping for breakfast on my way to work in 20 degree weather.
It is a great car enjoy it.
March 30, 2010 8:25 a.m. klipless New Reader

Never, ever, ever shut it off when the engine is still cold. Just last month I spent two solid days trying to unflood my 04 because I made that stupid mistake. It took a new set of spark plugs to get it going again. I'm sure I took some serious life off of my starter motor and battery cranking it as much as I did. I'm sure the cat was not to happy about it either. So seriously, never shut it off when cold.

I use traditional dead dino in my engine. There's no reason to use synthetic, it burns through oil decently quick. I think I add a quart every 1500 miles.

And rev the piss out of. Nothing like a good old Italian tune-up to keep Wankle's happy.
March 30, 2010 8:33 a.m. cwh SuperDork

"Italian Tune-up" Never heard that one before.
March 30, 2010 8:40 a.m. EricM Dork

Boost in, Apex Seals out.

Oh, and from what I hear ( I haven't owned one) get use to buying gas for it.

Otherwise, the people I know who do have one, like them alot. ( I know two people who own one.)
March 30, 2010 8:42 a.m. pilotbraden New Reader

On my rx-7 I have a switch cutting power to the fuel pump. I shut it down by shutting off the fuel pump. Shutting down at higher rpm blow any extra fuel out of the engine as it spins down. If it does flood merely change 1 spark plug per combution chamber and it fires right up. Ihave done that on the rx-7 very easily, it appears to be a bit more complex to reach the plugs on the rx-8.
March 30, 2010 8:51 a.m. klipless New Reader

pilotbraden wrote: it appears to be a bit more complex to reach the plugs on the rx-8.

They're not too hard to get to. Just pull the front left wheel and use it as a seat. Remove a small splash guard and they're right there. I use a 12" socket extension and a wobble joint to get to them. It took me a half hour the first time I did it, and that included walking a couple blocks to the hardware store to buy the right spark plug socket, 13/16" IIRC. Oh, and anti-seize is your friend.

A good how to.
March 30, 2010 8:57 a.m. dyintorace Dork

klipless wrote:

Never, ever, ever shut it off when the engine is still cold. Just last month I spent two solid days trying to unflood my 04 because I made that stupid mistake. It took a new set of spark plugs to get it going again. I'm sure I took some serious life off of my starter motor and battery cranking it as much as I did. I'm sure the cat was not to happy about it either. So seriously, never shut it off when cold.

I use traditional dead dino in my engine. There's no reason to use synthetic, it burns through oil decently quick. I think I add a quart every 1500 miles.

And rev the piss out of. Nothing like a good old Italian tune-up to keep Wankle's happy.

I find it amazing that a brand new car requires this amount of special care and handling.
March 30, 2010 9:21 a.m. Wonkothesane New Reader

It normally doesn't... I've never had a flooding issue on my 07. I do use the "rev it up to 3000 RPM and turn the car off" method if it's really cold, though, because I'm a 80s Rx-7 owner and it became habit :)

Here's what happens with the whole "flooding" thing...

They're not actually getting flooded. Inside of the engine there's a magical spinning triangle (the rotors). On the 3 corners of this triangle are Apex seals (At the apex of the triangle). When ANY car is started when it's cold out, they'll dump in up to 200% the "normal" amount of gas to get running and up to temp, slowly tapering it back as it warms up. What happens to rotaries is that if you shut it down at low RPM, the gas doesn't have a chance to get evacuated and it eats away/thinned the oil that was injected onto the seals, and you lose compression.

Then, you go to get back into the car at a later time, and crank it over and now MORE gas is injected to get it started, and it's a vicious cycle. The "fix" for this was implemented in 1989 which is a fuel cut off "switch." You activate it by pressing the throttle ALL the way down when you crank the car.

Step on the pedal all the way, it cuts fuel, crank the car for 15 seconds. Pause for 30 seconds to let the starter cool down, and do it again. This gets oil back on the seals and compression back up, then try to start it again.

The ONLY time this should cause you to change your plugs is if your plugs needed to be changed anyway. If you had old plugs that are wore out, then being coated in gas/oil mix is bad for spark.

Long story short: If you move the car a short distance (I.e.: It's 20 degrees out and you move it from the road to the driveway), hold the revs at 2500-3000 and turn the key off and you'll NEVER have to worry about the problem. If you don't, you just MOST LIKELY will never have to worry about it.
March 30, 2010 9:23 a.m. Wonkothesane New Reader

Oh, and nice choice :) I've yet to drive a car I like as much as my Rx8... The Miata and Rx7 are close seconds, though! A friend here at work has a 350Z and we switch rides sometimes, it's a cool hammer, but the Rx8 just feels like a precision weapon after driving it.
March 30, 2010 10:12 a.m. klipless New Reader

Wonkothesane wrote:

Long story short: If you move the car a short distance (I.e.: It's 20 degrees out and you move it from the road to the driveway), hold the revs at 2500-3000 and turn the key off and you'll NEVER have to worry about the problem.

That's how I flooded mine. Almost that exact scenario, it might have been 21 degrees though. Held the revs when I keyed off, and when I came back to start it the next morning, nuttin.

Cleaned up old plugs (28k miles) and reinstalled, no dice. Had some new ones laying around that I was going to install when I did my next oil change, and it worked like a charm.

I wouldn't say NEVER, maybe ALMOST NEVER.
March 30, 2010 10:20 a.m. pilotbraden New Reader

In reply to klipless:

On the rx-7 you open the hood and there they are. I have changed all 4 in under a minute. In comparison the rx-8 is a pain
March 30, 2010 10:30 a.m. Rufledt Reader

thanks everybody! that's all very helpful! this jives pretty well with what i've been reading, and i can tell i'm gonna love it. As for frequent oil/gas fill ups, I also drive a 1987 E-150 with many miles of heavy towing, so it burns oil faster than this rotary should. either way, i'm used to checking the oil ALL the time. i just got myself a quart of oil to keep in the the rx8, but i keep a jug of oil in the van at all times! and then gas, well combined city/hwy where i tried to drive nice i got 11 mpg, so i'll be super happy with 16-22. not that i care all that much about mileage.

and as for all of these procedures and special care, i'm a nerd, so i love extra procedures. And it's a new car, so it should get special care

the redlining it thing, uh, that won't be a problem...

Winters will be interesting here in wisconsin, but i don't really want to drive this in the salt so its good i'm keeping my van. Whats should i do if i want to park it for a few months? any special procedures? With my van my dad used to just unplug the battery and to hell if it has a dry start next time. it's already worn out, and after about 30 minutes the different colors of smoke go away since i've had it i've never let it sit for more than a week without going somewhere, though.

Oh and someone asked about the front bumper being different. It is different, and its an R3 thing. looks pretty good i think, though i think all RX8's look pretty good!
March 30, 2010 10:45 a.m. Rufledt Reader

one more question! i've never really researched rotaries much beyond the basic how they work stuff. Where should i go/what books should i read and so on to brush up on rotaries?
March 30, 2010 10:52 a.m. Knurled New Reader
1. Add a half ounce of two-cycle oil per gallon of fuel. The oil metering pump does not add enough oil. This is worth a little power in addition to longer engine life.
2. Don't use 5W20 - use 10W30 at a minimum, 20W50 in the summer. It's worse for fuel economy but the RX-8 oiling system is shortchanged. It is essentially the same oiling system as an '86 base model.
3. Synthetic oil is fine. There is one brand of synthetic that was not compatible with rotaries and Mazda had to blanket-statement against synthetics. Use Mobil 1. I have for years with no issues.
March 30, 2010 10:54 a.m. Knurled New Reader

dyintorace wrote:

I find it amazing that a brand new car requires this amount of special care and handling.

It's funny - there is a TSB regarding VW/Audi products having the same cold start flooding issue as rotaries. People expect a VW to not run half the time, though.
March 30, 2010 10:57 a.m. JohnGalt Reader
Knurled wrote:
1. Don't use 5W20 - use 10W30 at a minimum, 20W50 in the summer. It's worse for fuel economy but the RX-8 oiling system is shortchanged. It is essentially the same oiling system as an '86 base model.
2. Synthetic oil is fine. There is one brand of synthetic that was not compatible with rotaries and Mazda had to blanket-statement against synthetics. Use Mobil 1. I have for years with no issues.
Don't know about an oil that heavy, 5w30 or 5w40 is heavy enough, some cars have trouble getting the oil pressure up in hot climates, some people switch back to a lighter oil in the winter.

Don't want to cause the mother of all flame wars but Mobil 1 IS the oil Mazda had so much trouble with. Not saying that you are an idiot or that Mobil 1 is the destroyer of apex seals but it is the oil mazda had problems with 10-15 years ago.

How Stuff Works has a good article and describes it in good detail.

Link
March 30, 2010 11:25 a.m. Wonkothesane New Reader

Knurled wrote: 2. Don't use 5W20 - use 10W30 at a minimum, 20W50 in the summer. It's worse for fuel economy but the RX-8 oiling system is shortchanged. It is essentially the same oiling system as an '86 base model.

Not to be pedantic, but an '86 base model has the same oiling system that a 86 "luxury" model has, as well as the 87-88 Turbo'd models, and essentially the same system the 89-91 had, with the exception of a mechanical oil metering system as opposed to the newer electronically activated one.

The 5w20 vs. 10w30 thing doesn't actually have anything to do with the 8's oiling systems, a lot of car manufacturers switched their specs in the US to run 5w20 instead of 10w30 as a "standard" because of emissions. If it takes less energy to move the oil around (lighter weight oil), there's less work on the engine and therefore easier to control the output. An interesting note about this is on newer Lexuseesesesese and Mazdas (probably more but I don't know of any specific examples off hand), if you check out an identical owners manual US spec vs. Japanese spec, the Japanese ones will call out 10w30 while the US ones use 5w20. There is no mechanical difference between the two.

However, yes, the heart of your post is in the right place, use 10w30 :) I just wanted to try to clear up some FUD :)

klipless - Have you had an updated ECU flash put on it? I heard that helped the 2004s with that problem..
March 30, 2010 12:02 p.m. Rufledt Reader

ok good to know! i already have a quart of 5w20 but i'll get some 10w30 and just rotate which one i use when i top off the oil until i run out of 5w20. so that means i should change the oil myself so i can make sure it gets 10w30?

now i should go pick up some two-cycle oil... more driving to places.. oh darn. haha
March 30, 2010 12:12 p.m. BoxheadTim Dork

I'd get synthetic two stroke oil as that's usually designed for mixing ratios of 1:100 or more - the usual lawn mower stuff isn't and I'm not sure if that does any good.

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