Power vs weight vs outside dimensions.
Ford guys say they can build a righteous 5.0, but there's an awful lot of aftermarket Chevy stuff out there. Who to believe?
What do you think? Who can make more power for the size?
Dan
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July 15, 2009 1:18 p.m. 914Driver SuperDork
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July 15, 2009 1:24 p.m. Nashco SuperDork
You can build a very powerful SBF. You can build a SBC with the same power for cheaper. Being the most popular engine ever made has its benefits. The overall size isn't drastically different, so unless you literally can't fit a SBC then what does it matter?
Bryce
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July 15, 2009 1:24 p.m. mw Reader
I;m not a v8 guy, but from what I've heard, if outside dimensions are an issue, go with ford. If not, go with chev.
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July 15, 2009 1:51 p.m. Tom_Spangler Reader
Nashco wrote:
You can build a very powerful SBF. You can build a SBC with the same power for cheaper.
My understanding is that this isn't as true as it used to be. The explosion in popularity of the 5.0 Mustang made for a whole lot more cheap SBF parts than existed before that. At one time there were 10+ companies making cylinder heads for those engines, though I don't know how that market is now.
I'd say it comes down to personal preference and how well each would fit your particular application.
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July 15, 2009 2:13 p.m. oldtin New Reader
Pretty comparable. The ford is about 100 lbs lighter - alum. heads can drop another 40 lbs. - you can get big power out of either or leave them understressed and they last a long time. The 5.0 is shorter, narrower and not as tall, but not by a huge margin in any direction - like an inch. My challenge car is an mgb with a 5.0 - the weight ended up more of a factor than cost or hp potential comparing to an sbc.
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July 15, 2009 2:24 p.m. m4ff3w Dork
oldtin wrote:
Pretty comparable. The ford is about 100 lbs lighter - alum. heads can drop another 40 lbs. - you can get big power out of either or leave them understressed and they last a long time. The 5.0 is shorter, narrower and not as tall, but not by a huge margin in any direction - like an inch. My challenge car is an mgb with a 5.0 - the weight ended up more of a factor than cost or hp potential comparing to an sbc.
How does the SBF compare in weight with the Al blocked Gen 3 & 4 engines?
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July 15, 2009 2:25 p.m. P71 SuperDork
Hot Rod or Car Craft did an article a few years ago and found that now it's cheaper to build a SBF than a SBC. You can't go wrong either way, they are both excellent engines. As pointed out though the Ford is smaller and lighter, though it will not hold to up to as much power on a stock block. Roller cam "5.0"'s are much easier to find and provide even more bang-for-the-buck.
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July 15, 2009 2:50 p.m. ScottRA21 New Reader
Ford small block?
http://www.airflowresearch.com/articles.php
Scroll to the bottom, and tke a quick look through the "Ultimate Guide to 5.0 Cylinder Heads"
EXTENSIVE does not begin to describe this article. Measuring, flowtesting, and dynoing up to 8 different heads, on 4, very different blocks (over 30 head swaps in total).
It was done in 2001, but it does give you an incredible insight into what it takes to build what sort of power. And it was done by a third party, not AFR themselves.
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July 15, 2009 2:52 p.m. oldtin New Reader
m4ff3w wrote:
oldtin wrote:
Pretty comparable. The ford is about 100 lbs lighter - alum. heads can drop another 40 lbs. - you can get big power out of either or leave them understressed and they last a long time. The 5.0 is shorter, narrower and not as tall, but not by a huge margin in any direction - like an inch. My challenge car is an mgb with a 5.0 - the weight ended up more of a factor than cost or hp potential comparing to an sbc.
How does the SBF compare in weight with the Al blocked Gen 3 & 4 engines?
SBF weighs in at 485 w/iron heads - 445 w/alum LSx avg about 415 I bought a 5.0 ho for $79. Can't really do that with an LSx yet.
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July 15, 2009 3:05 p.m. John Brown SuperDork
If you are tight on length but have width you use a Chevrolet. If you are tight in width but have length use the Ford. If you can fit either but want the absolute most power buy the Chevrolet.
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July 15, 2009 3:31 p.m. Nashco SuperDork
P71 wrote:
Hot Rod or Car Craft did an article a few years ago and found that now it's cheaper to build a SBF than a SBC.
Did they ever meet Andy Nelson?
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July 15, 2009 3:59 p.m. RossD Reader
One thing to consider is location of distributor (if you're using one) The ford's is in the front and the chevy's is in the back of the block. Somthing to consider if the back of the engine will be under part of the cowl/scuttle.
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July 15, 2009 4:01 p.m. Trans_Maro HalfDork
John Brown wrote:
If you are tight on length but have width you use a Chevrolet. If you are tight in width but have length use the Ford. If you can fit either but want the absolute most power buy the Chevrolet.
Yup..
The 351W fit in my '48 Chevy fleetmaster better than the SBC did so I went with the blue oval.
It's narrower by just enough that I can keep my factory steering column, if I used a SBC I'd need a MII front suspension and new steering column.
Shawn
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July 15, 2009 4:07 p.m. oldtin New Reader
ford ends up with a front sump - something else to consider on crossmember clearance.
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July 15, 2009 4:09 p.m. Chris_V SuperDork
when building either, more cubes equals more power. A 5.0 has a hard time cresting 347 cid. A 350 Chev of course starts out there, and factory parts go over 400 cid without changing exterior dimensions.
But, the 5.0 (or earlier 302) will fit in some tight areas, and can make more than enough power for not a lot of money anymore, especially carbed.
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July 15, 2009 4:40 p.m. Jensenman SuperDork
I'm a SBF man mostly due to the head design. As noted by others, it fits in some pretty tight spots too when compared to the SBC.
SBF's can be made rear sump with a Bronco or Fox body Mustang oil pan and pickup, the 351W can be made rear sump with a Fox body swap oil pan sold by Ford Racing.
Don't take this to mean SBC's are junk because they aren't.
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July 15, 2009 4:57 p.m. Travis_K HalfDork
Chevys will make more power without breaking the block, the ford ones will split in half. Chevys have the distributor at the back, so that can be annoying sometimes. Fords have better heads, and widely available EFI parts, chevys anything other than the TBI ones get stripped at the junkyard pretty fast.
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July 15, 2009 7:13 p.m. Trans_Maro HalfDork
oldtin wrote:
ford ends up with a front sump - something else to consider on crossmember clearance.
There are different pans, my Windsor came out of a Crown Vic Interceptor. Rear sump.
Shawn
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July 15, 2009 7:25 p.m. maroon92 SuperDork
SBFFTMFW! Sorry, but i grew up a Ford kid... In this case i think its firestone/michelin, holley/edelbrock, valvoline/quaker state. Pick what you like, and be prepared to defend it to the death in a room full of car guys.
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July 15, 2009 7:36 p.m. P71 SuperDork
Screw em both, AMC all the way!
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July 15, 2009 8:21 p.m. fiat22turbo SuperDork
Is it too late too mention the 340 or 360? Lol
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July 15, 2009 10:28 p.m. NOHOME New Reader
And to prove that the world is getting smaller, the LS heads from GM bolt on to the Ford 302.
You are on your own for a manifold.
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July 15, 2009 10:37 p.m. dyintorace Dork
Another consideration is that the SBF sounds better uncorked than the SBC...IMO.
My first car was an '87 5.0 with Flowmasters and nothing else. I still miss that sound.
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July 15, 2009 11:11 p.m. wheels777 HalfDork
Owned both, own both, raced both, won with both. $/HP go SBC. Better head design with ports that can make more hp. Better Intake/exhaust flow ratios. Better oiling system. More head bolts allow for better head clamping force. 4 bolt mains allow better bearing clamping force. Block can take lots more HP. Internal balanced except 400 and one piece rear seal engines. Super availability for aftermarket parts.
SBF has some good features, good valve angle, clean straight castings, good bore:stroke ratio for small engine, short deck allow light rotating assembly weights. Engine weighs 40 pounds less........ But the exhaust ports suck. Oil pump pick-ups draw oil against direction of acceleration. Narrow block make for poor intake runner length dimensions - 4 long and 4 short - unless you use a EFI set-up. External balanced with diferent pulley bolt arrangements and balance weights.
Bottom line...build what you want. They are both decent pieces.
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July 15, 2009 11:53 p.m. ReverendDexter HalfDork
I'm shocked at how civilized this discussion is
