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  • Apexcarver

    Aug. 10, 2009 5:01 p.m. Apexcarver UltraDork

    one thing that I have thought about is that in this day and age where alot of orgs have you carrying a transponder, how hard would it be to make a flashing light that would go on your dash that race control can trigger.

    short range transmitter for partial track coverage, brightness of a shift light, blinking in your face. I would think it would be worth the effort over someone standing off the side of the track with a flag where the driver isnt really concentrating on.

    I am surprised that no series has done this (to my knowledge at least) I would think it would do well to prevent incidents like this.

    of course, simplicity is best and those lights and short range transmitters cost money, but I think it could be done reasonably cheap.

  • Zman

    Aug. 10, 2009 5:03 p.m. Zman New Reader

    It may seem silly but lights hanging over those particularly dangerous parts of the track. Would they be more noticable to a driver too? If it was a bright Yellow flash even?

  • JmfnB

    Aug. 10, 2009 5:08 p.m. JmfnB MegaDork

    Apexcarver wrote:

    one thing that I have thought about is that in this day and age where alot of orgs have you carrying a transponder, how hard would it be to make a flashing light that would go on your dash that race control can trigger.

    short range transmitter for partial track coverage, brightness of a shift light, blinking in your face. I would think it would be worth the effort over someone standing off the side of the track with a flag where the driver isnt really concentrating on.

    I am surprised that no series has done this (to my knowledge at least) I would think it would do well to prevent incidents like this.

    of course, simplicity is best and those lights and short range transmitters cost money, but I think it could be done reasonably cheap.

    Doesn't F1 do this?

    I seem to remember a light blinking on the wheel and the "rain light" flashing under caution and I thought it was tower controlled.

  • Zman

    Aug. 10, 2009 5:13 p.m. Zman New Reader

    Yeah F1 does have rain lights for sure [used when dense fog decends quickly too?].

  • Salanis

    Aug. 10, 2009 5:15 p.m. Salanis UltraDork

    Zman,

    First rule of responding to an emergency, is to not do anything that will add to the problem. If someone is caught in a current in a river and can't swim to shore, you don't jump in after them. If you do, the real rescue crews will now have twice as many people to rescue as before.

    If you stop to help, you are taking up real estate near the accident. That is less space to move traffic and safety vehicles through. You also can't help the driver in an accident. You don't have the equipment or training to respond to those situations.

    There are safety crews there with all the equipment and training whose job it is to respond to accidents. The best way for you to help them is to not get in their way. You can't make their job go any quicker, you can only slow it down.

    Be predictable. Be safe. Be alert. Do what you are directed to do by the people coordinating the emergency response.

  • Wally

    Aug. 10, 2009 5:16 p.m. Wally UberDork

    There was a system some circle tracks were using called Race Safe. When the caution came out a big yellow light on the dash would light up. I don't remember them being that expensive, maybe a few hundred a car for the system.

  • oldsaw

    Aug. 10, 2009 5:21 p.m. oldsaw Reader

    Yes, the technology is available, but at what costs? This is club racing where the competitors have to pay out of pocket, not some sponsor or benevolent philanthropist. The same applies to the tracks.

    Only insurance requirements or the competitors (i.e, the SCCA) can make it mandatory.

    As antiquated and bureaucratic as the SCCA is, it does place the highest priorities on safety. With all the precautions, there can never be a guarantee of complete safety.

    People, being what we are, are imperfect and no expense will prevent us from making potentially harmful mistakes.

  • Zman

    Aug. 10, 2009 5:22 p.m. Zman New Reader

    True true. At the end of the day it was just a mistake. Does anyone know how the two drivers are?

  • gamby

    Aug. 10, 2009 6:11 p.m. gamby UberDork

    Rusty_Rabbit84 wrote:

    they said he lost it in that corner and there was a local yellow, but you really have to look for the flag, i missed it the 2 or 3 times i watched that clip...

    I never would have caught it. The Lotus just seemed to appear out of nowhere.

    Amazing that no one was seriously hurt. Says a LOT about safety regs, as well as the construction of the cars...

  • White_and_Nerdy

    Aug. 10, 2009 6:35 p.m. White_and_Nerdy New Reader

    Huh - I last drove Lime Rock in... 2003 or so? That corner station was on the outside of the exit from the Right Hander (where the crash occurred), and far more visible as you proceed through the turn onto No Name Straight. I can understand the reason for relocation - the inside of a turn is safer than the outside - but unfortunately the visibility was reduced.

    I got a really good look at the old location of that corner station when I did a 360 entering No Name Straight - spun straight down the track and came to a stop right next to the corner station. He didn't have to black flag me - we understood each other.

  • Monkeywrench

    Aug. 10, 2009 7:40 p.m. Monkeywrench Reader

    Apexcarver wrote: I am surprised that no series has done this (to my knowledge at least) I would think it would do well to prevent incidents like this.

    I think all the Grand Am classes are required to have this

  • docwyte

    Aug. 10, 2009 8:27 p.m. docwyte New Reader

    I dunno, I clearly saw the waving yellow flag immediately.

  • Keith

    Aug. 10, 2009 8:40 p.m. Keith UberDork

    It's easy to see stuff like that when you know there's a crash coming and you're sitting in front of the computer watching the YouTubes, though. As much as I hate to say it, I think this was a "racing incident". But wow, that was a hard hit. What a terrible noise.

  • Zman

    Aug. 11, 2009 4:48 a.m. Zman New Reader

    See when I first watched the video I didn't see the flag at all. Being a noob I'm wondering if that means anything but if it isn't immediately obvious.

    Anyways it must have worked before now so maybe it was just really bad luck :(

  • RobL

    Aug. 11, 2009 9:45 a.m. RobL Reader

    Zman wrote:

    Mhk, i would feel really guilty but if thems the rules, I guess they are there to stop more people from getting hurt.

    Although if it was my mate in the car I may feel differently.

    I was at CMP this year. A buddy of mine rolled his car going into turn one. I was about 200 yards back. They got the red flag out just as I was passing the car and I had to stop just ahead of the rolled car. I could not see what was going on 50' behind me but I had to sit in the car, belted in, and watch the flag station for permission to go - not knowing if my friend was OK. You can't feel guilty, nothing you did or didn't do is going to affect the outcome.

    He was OK, just a little shaken. And after the car had been cleared, we went back to racing.

    BTW, the first thing I saw was motion in the flag station and the flag being brought out. When I pass a slow/broken car, I tend to look further ahead on the track than normal and try and pick up the next flag station. You just passed a problem and they tend to travel in pairs. There may be another one further ahead. And I know the track so my eyes went right to the flagstation.

  • RobL

    Aug. 11, 2009 10:00 a.m. RobL Reader

    Apexcarver wrote: short range transmitter for partial track coverage, brightness of a shift light, blinking in your face. I would think it would be worth the effort over someone standing off the side of the track with a flag where the driver isnt really concentrating on.

    I am surprised that no series has done this (to my knowledge at least) I would think it would do well to prevent incidents like this.

    It's a lot more complicated than that. The majority of yellows are local. So you would need the light to only come on only while approaching the problem. You can't really use a distance based transmitter for two reasons - 1) recievers will pick up the signal at different distances and 2) where track layouts come close to each other you may trigger the light on a part of the track where it isn't warrented. So you would really need a smart system that would would turn the yellow cockpit light on based on track position (GPS) would be a steady light (standing yellow) or a blinking light (waving yellow) and would have to be absolutely bulletproof. Transponders are $500. I can't imagine how much this system would cost.

    It is the drivers duty to see each flag station as he passes and take note of and obey any/all flags posted there.

  • andrave

    Aug. 11, 2009 11:13 a.m. andrave Reader

    I saw the flag but was still as suprised as the miata drivers at the lotus facing the wrong way in the middle of the track.

  • JFX001

    Aug. 11, 2009 11:28 a.m. JFX001 Dork

    There should be a light at each flag station rigged for standing and waving (slow flash/fast flash) with a switch for both along with a cool "that was easy/Family Feud" big button that they can slam down as soon as possible.

    Make the lights LED's and as big as necessary.4' X 8' plywood 8 ft above the track?

  • GameboyRMH

    Aug. 11, 2009 11:48 a.m. GameboyRMH SuperDork

    I wouldn't have noticed the yellow flag either, I don't think anyone saw it...but I'm surprised nothing more was done to dodge the Lotus. If a harder right wasn't practical, I would have moved left and taken the risk of hitting someone on that side. An impact with a car moving roughly the same speed in the same direction would have been much less traumatic.

  • spdracer315

    Aug. 11, 2009 12:09 p.m. spdracer315 Reader

    It took me watching it a few times to catch the yellow. Just a racing deal though. Wrong place wrong time. The miata is lucky not to have gone over though, you can see it land on two wheels in the camera cars mirrior.

  • RobL

    Aug. 11, 2009 1:03 p.m. RobL Reader

    GameboyRMH wrote:

    I wouldn't have noticed the yellow flag either, I don't think anyone saw it...

    The Miata in the lead noticed it and slowed. That is was "enabled" the pass.

  • RobL

    Aug. 11, 2009 1:06 p.m. RobL Reader

    JFX001 wrote:

    There should be a light at each flag station rigged for standing and waving (slow flash/fast flash) with a switch for both along with a cool "that was easy/Family Feud" big button that they can slam down as soon as possible.

    Make the lights LED's and as big as necessary.4' X 8' plywood 8 ft above the track?

    Electricity out to the flagstations would be expensive.

  • BoneYard_Racing

    Aug. 11, 2009 1:12 p.m. BoneYard_Racing New Reader

    ^ A few small Li-On packs and LEDs could make the units self contained

  • JFX001

    Aug. 11, 2009 1:51 p.m. JFX001 Dork

    RobL wrote:

    JFX001 wrote:

    There should be a light at each flag station rigged for standing and waving (slow flash/fast flash) with a switch for both along with a cool "that was easy/Family Feud" big button that they can slam down as soon as possible.

    Make the lights LED's and as big as necessary.4' X 8' plywood 8 ft above the track?

    Electricity out to the flagstations would be expensive.

    Something along the lines of this ( look under "SOLAR MESSAGE BOARDS):

    http://www.protectionservices.com/html/products.asp?=28

    I'm sure that it can be done a lot cheaper.

  • poopshovel

    Aug. 11, 2009 2:00 p.m. poopshovel SuperDork

    I saw the flag plain as day, but the light idea is great too. Screw the cost. It's a lot cheaper than a trip to the hospital and a wadded up car.

    We discussed doing this in the LeMons car. Blinking yellow for approaching single corner, solid yellow for full course, etc. Of course, this would require more than one or two spotters on a big track. I don't remember the drunken particulars, but I know Kevin (the electrical guru) figured it out on the super cheap.

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