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monark192
monark192 Reader
9/24/10 8:02 p.m.

Wow.

Link

DavidinDurango
DavidinDurango New Reader
9/24/10 8:33 p.m.

Ha, there is one in a Miata somewhere . . . .

Lessee, shoehorn, lovejuice, bfh, hot wrench . . . GO!

Sonic
Sonic Dork
9/24/10 8:38 p.m.

We (MisfitToys Racing) are just starting on our new LeMons car, an MGB, and have just bought a big motor donor car...though the engine is a few hundred cc smaller than that one, but infinitely less cool, nice to see someone else shoehorning a big motor into an MGB for no good reason.

JThw8
JThw8 SuperDork
9/24/10 9:52 p.m.

Oddly enough in our thread over on the Lemons board about the MGB someone was just trying to talk us into a V12 jag motor. I think I'll stick with what we gots.

96DXCivic
96DXCivic SuperDork
9/24/10 9:56 p.m.

I nominate that for the epic build threads thread.

mr2peak
mr2peak New Reader
9/24/10 11:56 p.m.

^2 And why would that be?

gamby
gamby SuperDork
9/25/10 12:37 a.m.

OP car is indeed epic. That's some motivation right there.

Sonic--a) I hope you share this project with us here b) I'll bet an XJS V12 probably isn't all that expensive--these cars get worthless very quickly depending on what went wrong w/ them. That said, Ellis Juan/SBC is obviously more practical on every level.

Mikey52_1
Mikey52_1 Reader
9/25/10 12:51 a.m.

Wowzers! I'm glad I'm not THAT crazy!

JThw8
JThw8 SuperDork
9/25/10 6:21 a.m.
gamby wrote: OP car is indeed epic. That's some motivation right there. Sonic--a) I hope you share this project with us here b) I'll bet an XJS V12 probably isn't all that expensive--these cars get worthless very quickly depending on what went wrong w/ them. That said, Ellis Juan/SBC is obviously more practical on every level.

The car Sonic speaks of will be shared. We'll do a build site like we did for the Wartburg and post details here as we go. But this is a Lemons car so it wont be all that exciting or pretty, just stuff a V8 into and MG and weld where appropriate :)

Twin_Cam
Twin_Cam Dork
9/25/10 7:23 a.m.

I liked the comment about regretting that engine and it's placement when it's time to replace spark plugs

Still an awesome build. That engine always comes up, but it seems people go with LSx and the like way more often.

emodspitfire
emodspitfire New Reader
9/25/10 9:46 p.m.

Sooo.....

A guy at work just converted an XJ12 Convertible to a Camaro v8 driveline. (350 with AL heads, don't know the Chevy engine code)

His comment went along these lines: " The Chevy driveline is 300 pounds lighter, it makes 80% more torque and 50% more Hp than the Jag motor.....and it is (at least) 4 times more reliable..."

So this MGB/C coupe with a too heavy, low power motor is gonna compete with the low weight, high HP, racecars that dominate Emod??

Uh... nurse...can you bump up my demerol dosage....I haven't crossed over to Nirvana...yet...

(Maybe this Emod car is gonna run in a region that has no existing Emod players.....)

Seriously....why would anybody do this even if they had a free V12 in the garage??

Rog

Shaun
Shaun Reader
9/25/10 10:17 p.m.
emodspitfire wrote: Sooo..... A guy at work just converted an XJ12 Convertible to a Camaro v8 driveline. (350 with AL heads, don't know the Chevy engine code) His comment went along these lines: " The Chevy driveline is 300 pounds lighter, it makes 80% more torque and 50% more Hp than the Jag motor.....and it is (at least) 4 times more reliable..." So this MGB/C coupe with a too heavy, low power motor is gonna compete with the low weight, high HP, racecars that dominate Emod?? Uh... nurse...can you bump up my demerol dosage....I haven't crossed over to Nirvana...yet... (Maybe this Emod car is gonna run in a region that has no existing Emod players.....) Seriously....why would anybody do this even if they had a free V12 in the garage?? Rog

He covers that: "I know I could make more hp with less weight with an LS1 but there's something really cool about V12's and a British engine in a British car has charm as well."

It is obviously not an attempt to be ultra competitive. I love it and wish him all the best. Very cool project.

m4ff3w
m4ff3w SuperDork
9/25/10 10:23 p.m.
emodspitfire wrote: So this MGB/C coupe with a too heavy, low power motor is gonna compete with the low weight, high HP, racecars that dominate Emod?? Uh... nurse...can you bump up my demerol dosage....I haven't crossed over to Nirvana...yet... (Maybe this Emod car is gonna run in a region that has no existing Emod players.....) Seriously....why would anybody do this even if they had a free V12 in the garage?? Rog

Because he wants to do it? Isn't that what really matters?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if2j6yqZg0Q

Would be fun to sound like that.

I'll much rather see a unique swap than yet another SBC swap.

oldsaw
oldsaw SuperDork
9/25/10 11:44 p.m.
Shaun wrote: It is obviously not an attempt to be ultra competitive. I love it and wish him all the best. Very cool project.

All points are true - a very cool project!

Competitive is a relative goal, the builder has to beat this to win "big":

http://video.filestube.com/watch,19aa48db4221a52803e9/Jeff-Kiesel-KFR-Turbo-Sprite-San-Diego-autocross-6-14-09.html

If the MG is merely quick and sounds good, it's a winner in it's own way.

emodspitfire
emodspitfire New Reader
9/26/10 7:55 a.m.

Guys,

Sorry for the snarky remarks.

Could have stated my opinion/beliefs better:

Jag V12 in an MG coupe for the street = FUN. Jag V12 in any Emod car = Slow and frustrating.

Rog

Keith
Keith SuperDork
9/26/10 8:38 a.m.

Yeah, who wants a boring MGB with an LS1. I mean, everybody's got one Heck, there's even one that runs.

I love the way that, for the first half of the thread, every picture has less MG present as he chops parts out. Given his fabrication skills and willingness to dive in, I'm surprised he's kept the stock lower control arms. From what I recall,they're pretty heavy. Using a weld-in 4-link setup like that would have saved me a LOT of time!

JtspellS
JtspellS Reader
9/26/10 9:16 a.m.

Epic build even if it is not going to be "competitive"

Teh E36 M3
Teh E36 M3 Reader
9/26/10 9:24 a.m.

Did he shift? Each time the DV vented, it sounded like he was shooting down x wing fighters or something. Wow.

oldsaw wrote:
Shaun wrote: It is obviously not an attempt to be ultra competitive. I love it and wish him all the best. Very cool project.

All points are true - a very cool project!

Competitive is a relative goal, the builder has to beat this to win "big":

http://video.filestube.com/watch,19aa48db4221a52803e9/Jeff-Kiesel-KFR-Turbo-Sprite-San-Diego-autocross-6-14-09.html

If the MG is merely quick and sounds good, it's a winner in it's own way.

loosecannon
loosecannon HalfDork
9/29/10 3:13 p.m.

Hey guys (and gals). The MGB with the V12 is my project and let me address some of the questions about it.

Engine weight: an LS1 V8 weighs about 400 lbs and the V12 listed weight is 612 lbs including air pump, power steering pump, exhaust manifolds, clutch fan and alternator. I have removed the air pump, ps pump, fan, brackets and heavy exhaust manifolds and am putting headers on it so it's right around 500 lbs now. Yes, it's heavier but so far my total car weight including everything is 1863 lbs with a class minimum of 1800 lbs-and my weight balance is 54%/46% FR. The stock Jag intake manifolds are water jacketed and extremely heavy so one day I'll switch to a Megasquirt or 12 downdraft carbs and save some weight there, too.

Engine power: The listed HP for a stock 5.3 ranges from 250-312 hp depending where you read. I have dropped a lot of parasitic losses by ditching all the accessories and am putting headers on it, which are a big improvement over stock. Also, Jaguar limited the rpm of the engine to around 6500 but by all accounts it can safely rev to 7850 rpm-adding stiffer valve springs and upping the redline alone will make extra power. I expect 325-350 hp out of it. A 60 degree V12 is perfectly balanced and I have started and revved this engine to redline without it being attached to anything and it doesn't move.

Competitiveness: I am the only Mod car running locally and will probably not go to Nationals until I can win PAX here, I expect it to take a while to develop the car to reach that point. Jeff Keisel's Sprite makes 340 hp and weighs 1830 lbs but it's twitchy due to it's 80" wheelbase and the engine is peaky due to it being a turbo rotary. My advantage will be a 91" wheelbase, bigger tires and the flattest torque curve you can imagine, shifting gears will be practically superfluous. Saying that, the priorities for the car are, in order: 1-fun to build, 2-fun to drive, 3-Is it cool?, 4-reliable, 5-competitive. So far I am having a hoot building it and by all accounts it's pretty cool.

wbjones
wbjones Dork
9/29/10 4:04 p.m.

hey loosecannon, welcome to the forum.. hope you'll be a regular and keep us posted with the build and the 1,2,3,4,5 stuff

loosecannon
loosecannon HalfDork
9/29/10 4:36 p.m.

Update: I weighed the metal I have removed since weighing the whole car and I have shaved 74 lbs off it, including 43 lbs(!) of exhaust manifolds.

irish44j
irish44j HalfDork
9/29/10 10:59 p.m.

wow...

my dark evil thought is kind of the opposite: take my GT6 and put a wrx/impreza drivetrain in it.....plenty of room under the hood, engine weighs about 1/3 of the stock I6 lump, and AWD + 250whp in a sub-2000lb car would be fun fun fun.

But the Jag V12 is definitely cooler, just for the British connection.

Ian F
Ian F Dork
9/30/10 8:52 a.m.
irish44j wrote: my dark evil thought is kind of the opposite: take my GT6 and put a wrx/impreza drivetrain in it.....plenty of room under the hood, engine weighs about 1/3 of the stock I6 lump, and AWD +

Plenty of room? Where?

DILYSI Dave
DILYSI Dave SuperDork
9/30/10 9:01 a.m.
loosecannon wrote: Jeff Keisel's Sprite makes 340 hp and weighs 1830 lbs but it's twitchy due to it's 80" wheelbase and the engine is peaky due to it being a turbo rotary. My advantage will be a 91" wheelbase, bigger tires and the flattest torque curve you can imagine, shifting gears will be practically superfluous. Saying that, the priorities for the car are, in order: 1-fun to build, 2-fun to drive, 3-Is it cool?, 4-reliable, 5-competitive. So far I am having a hoot building it and by all accounts it's pretty cool.

FYI -

Twitchy - Nope, responsive. The thing will flat out turn.
Peaky - That's not how I hear it.
Tires - I REALLY don't think you will do better than Keisel on tires.

That said, I do like your 1,2,3,4,5, and I think the build is cool as all get out.

Raze
Raze UltraDork
9/30/10 9:16 a.m.
JThw8 wrote:
gamby wrote: OP car is indeed epic. That's some motivation right there. Sonic--a) I hope you share this project with us here b) I'll bet an XJS V12 probably isn't all that expensive--these cars get worthless very quickly depending on what went wrong w/ them. That said, Ellis Juan/SBC is obviously more practical on every level.

The car Sonic speaks of will be shared. We'll do a build site like we did for the Wartburg and post details here as we go. But this is a Lemons car so it wont be all that exciting or pretty, just stuff a V8 into and MG and weld where appropriate :)

Yous guys need compound turbocharging just for schnitz and giggles

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