El Cheapo
El Cheapo HalfDork
11/27/15 9:20 a.m.

I'm trying to understand how backlash and contact patch seem interrelated when setting up a differential. The picture below is a diff I'm building and the backlash is being adjusted. The next step is to paint the ring gear and check contact patch. My understanding is if the contact patch needs adjusting.... it will effect the backlash. Is this true or am I not understanding the concept?

For the curious, the ring and pinion ratio is 3.90 and were harvested from an early model RX-7. The gear set fits in a '94 up Miata open differential. I love how obscure parts from a different era can be mix-matched with Mazda.

EvanB
EvanB UltimaDork
11/27/15 9:38 a.m.

When I did the same thing I only needed to set the backlash and the contact patch was fine since I didn't touch the pinion depth.

So that totally doesn't answer your question.

Rogue
Rogue New Reader
11/27/15 9:51 a.m.

Interested too……hard to see, so are you building a 3.9 Clutch pack?

El Cheapo
El Cheapo HalfDork
11/27/15 9:57 a.m.

In reply to EvanB:

Actually that is helpful. I have zero experience and its good to know.

El Cheapo
El Cheapo HalfDork
11/27/15 9:59 a.m.

In reply to Rogue:

Its just a regular open diff..

Knurled
Knurled MegaDork
11/27/15 10:35 a.m.

Changing backlash affects what the proper pinion depth should be, and changing pinion depth affects backlash.

Basically the gear mesh happens on a plane that isn't remotely close to either of the axes you can adjust, so it is one part voodoo and two parts knack.

Start with the shims that came from the gearset in the differential housing, meaning the Miata gears. Gears are usually machined more precisely than the iron housings, so start with the shims that go with the housing.

Also, measure backlash as close to tangential to the ring gear as possible. That image is exactly how not to do it.

If you're installing used gears, you probably can throw the little guides out the window. Used gears won't really have a pattern anymore since the gears are worn-in. Shoot for the most contact as possible, and bear in mind that the gears WILL make a bunch of noise for the first 10,000mi or so until they wear-in again since it will be impossible to get them the same as the housing they were worn-in with.

On the bright side, this is one of the easier diffs to set up. You only have to juggle shims on the pinion, the differential gears have threaded adjusters. Since you have to remove the differential to change pinion shims, don't worry about backlash alteration since you have to reset it every time you pull the diff out.

The FSM is vague for how much preload to set on the diff bearings. My method for setting backlash is to set it too tight (practically zero lash, like .002-003" backlash) with no preload on the bearings, then tighten the right side bearing 2 1/2 holes. That SHOULD open up backlash to .004-.005" or so. But really for used gears the backlash should be set to what they were in the old housing. If you don't know that spec, set the backlash up a little tight and don't mind the screaming gears as they wear in again...

El Cheapo
El Cheapo HalfDork
11/27/15 10:57 a.m.

In reply to Knurled:

Awesome! thanks for taking the time to write that. The word voodoo puts it all in prospective.

Also, thanks for the heads up on the dial indicator position!

flatlander937
flatlander937 Reader
11/27/15 11:39 a.m.

Here's a how to I did years ago for regearing a Jeep D44. Should answer your questions. I've set up many rear ends, mostly under trucks and Jeeps but its all the same concept. I've fixed a Mercedes R350 front diff too... With unobtanium bearing races from France. Saved $2k though...

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f19/regearing-marinejrms-xj-d44-992471/

In a nut shell: if pattern needs adjusted you change pinion depth in direction needed, reset backlash to spec, THEN recheck pattern. Continue until happy.

Ranger50
Ranger50 PowerDork
11/27/15 12:30 p.m.

And sometimes OE's set up gears to a std spec shim and mark the pinion depth from that spec, so you can just grab that shim and torque. Then you play with the backlash to get the desired pattern.....

Knurled
Knurled MegaDork
11/27/15 1:57 p.m.

I don't think I've ever seen a depth on the end of a Mazda pinion. Plenty of them on GM pinions, and it's super nice for those because we have the measuring tools for GM rears so we just measure, install the appropriate shim, and everything's good.

IF you have the measuring tools...

Knurled
Knurled MegaDork
12/4/15 8:08 p.m.

Hey look what I found.

 photo GEDC0767.jpg

A wear pattern on an actual Mazda gearset, Note that the drive side basically has no pattern anymore, while the coast side still looks like something you'd see in a book. This diff had .010 backlash when I got it. I put a limited slip it it and tightened the backlash to .004 because setting up a little tight will compensate for everything spreading apart under load. This was the result - the drive side is a little too close to the root (but it still was over the whole length of the tooth, at least) and the coast side was all up high but who cares about coast.

Well, if it was a customer car, I'd care (and probably just open the backlash up to what it had worn into) but for me, screw it, it'll be noisy, I just want it to not break.

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