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93EXCivic
93EXCivic SuperDork
1/14/12 8:36 a.m.

So my SO wants a Shelby Daytona and I was wondering what common pitfalls it has. Also any simple small mods that make it a better driver. What is different between the Shelby and the normal one? Also any thing specific to a '89 model. Think weekend cruiser as the main purpose.

Ranger50
Ranger50 Dork
1/14/12 9:16 a.m.

Make it better? RWD swap.

garaithon
garaithon New Reader
1/14/12 9:56 a.m.

Look for rust! The 89s are a good year as that was the first year for the common block. The best one to get would be one with the Turbo II motor as it is already intercooled and only came with the beefer 5speed trans. However the 2.5 is just as strong as the 2.2 in the Turbo II, you just have to add the intercooler yourself (easy to do).

Then throw a 3" exhaust, +40% injectors, and a 3bar computer on it and you have a low 13 sec car.

Maroon92
Maroon92 SuperDork
1/14/12 11:20 a.m.

Um...they're, like, more than a million dollars man...

Javelin
Javelin SuperDork
1/14/12 11:42 a.m.

And they only made 7 of them!

Appleseed
Appleseed SuperDork
1/14/12 11:56 a.m.

HA HA HAH AH. That's what I first thought.

ronholm
ronholm Reader
1/14/12 12:51 p.m.

89's are the best parts cars.. ( I am an Lbody (charger/omni) fan)

it should have 11 brakes up front and vented disk rears, big sway bars identified by tapered ends.

The common block started in 89 and is identified by lack of a fuel pump blockoff plate near the water pump.

A real turbo 2 car will have a forged crank, the better rods, and an intercooler.

A 'normal' Turbo 5 spd would be the ES model.. In 89 that would have been a 2.5L engine (stroke) and the 2.5 was choked off with a Mitsubishi turbo which is to small to make any real power... The smaller four wheel disks.. (non vented rears)

For building a straight line hotrod driver.. IMO the 2.5 is better.. You are going to swap turbos and put a bigger intercooler on anyway... The brakes and bars are extra weight... So...

But it doesn't matter to much.. the cars are like legos.. parts are cheap, but getting harder to find than they used to be..

Open up the exhaust and enjoy...

Everything you should need to know (at first) is here..

http://www.thedodgegarage.com/ (follow the links at left side of page)

novaderrik
novaderrik Dork
1/14/12 4:51 p.m.
Ranger50 wrote: Make it better? RWD swap.

Mopar used to sell the motor mounts to put an LA series (318, 340, 360) V8 in the front.. you were on your own from the firewall back..

Ranger50
Ranger50 Dork
1/14/12 6:24 p.m.
novaderrik wrote:
Ranger50 wrote: Make it better? RWD swap.

Mopar used to sell the motor mounts to put an LA series (318, 340, 360) V8 in the front.. you were on your own from the firewall back..

Yes, I had that Mopar catalog, believe it was the 95 edition. The mounts and K-member were for Super Stock anyways where you are free to do the radical floor mods to make it work. Altho the other Turbo Mopar thread I made mention of a Turismo that didn't need much in the way of floor mods to make it RWD.

ronholm
ronholm Reader
1/14/12 6:43 p.m.

In reply to Ranger50:

Are you thinking of this car?

http://www.collectorcarnation.com/Dodge/2316925/87-Dodge-Charger-Small-Block-360-rwd-.html

Ranger50
Ranger50 Dork
1/14/12 7:31 p.m.

In reply to ronholm:

No. The one I am thinking about was black or blue with a grey interior.

ronholm
ronholm Reader
1/14/12 7:36 p.m.

this one

http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f11/f68/241508-my-rear-drive-87-shelby-charger-3.html

Ranger50
Ranger50 Dork
1/14/12 7:46 p.m.

In reply to ronholm:

I have reached the maximum allowed posts, so you must surrender to us and register. berkeley that.

ronholm
ronholm Reader
1/14/12 7:51 p.m.

Yeah... I hated linking to TD..

Turbo-mopar.com

Ranger50
Ranger50 Dork
1/14/12 8:18 p.m.

In reply to ronholm:

Oh and I don't think it was the Exile guy either....

ronholm
ronholm Reader
1/14/12 8:27 p.m.

Larry Bufords Sundance? I lives not far from me.. and there is very little work to the floor of that car...

530+ something to the wheels on a mustang dyno...

Ranger50
Ranger50 Dork
1/14/12 8:34 p.m.

In reply to ronholm:

I saw that name and a few pics posted on T-M.... There happen to be anything more about that car anywhere?

ronholm
ronholm Reader
1/14/12 8:43 p.m.

He had a thread kinda going at TD. But he is a pretty modest guy.. and will tell you anything.. gladly answer questions, but he pretty much keeps to himself otherwise. He is a great guy, true blue grassroots to the core...

That entire sundance practically came from the pick and pull... The pistons are about the only fancy hardware anywhere on that thing... Oh.. and the axles..

It is a PT cruiser head.. Geo metro cam gears... dakota bellhousing hooked to a jy supra 5spd.. the Ford 9 is junkyard as well as the limited slip...

I guess the car is down at the moment.. He went with a heavier flywheel from a dakota iirc and blamed that for breaking the crank (a stock 2.5 cast crank)

When the Sundance is not broke.. which really it is pretty reliable all things considered.. he drives it daily..

93EXCivic
93EXCivic SuperDork
1/14/12 8:44 p.m.

Like I said this would be for the lady friend. I am not looking for massive fast speed but just small things like an improved stereo, better tires, clean it up.

Where do they tend to rust? What is the difference between the Shelby and the "normal" turbo models?

turboswede
turboswede SuperDork
1/14/12 10:31 p.m.

Shelby had ground effects and most of the options (including T-Tops). Stiffer suspension, wider wheels, etc.

I don't know about rust as mine never rusted (PNW)

the cars are pretty flexible in the rear (especially the T-tops), adding a brace between the wheel wells (upper seat mounts are handy) helps a lot.

Stereo is a 1.5 DIN and as long as it isn't an Infinity should be easy to replace with something more compatible with the modern world.

Head gaskets, shifter bushings, motor mounts, vacuum lines and bad electrical connections are the common maladies. Pretty easy to work on, lots of info available on troubleshooting, etc.

ronholm
ronholm Reader
1/16/12 10:17 p.m.
93EXCivic wrote: Like I said this would be for the lady friend. I am not looking for massive fast speed but just small things like an improved stereo, better tires, clean it up. Where do they tend to rust? What is the difference between the Shelby and the "normal" turbo models?

If it is a daytona it is going to be rusted where the e-brake comes through. (driver side floorpan right behind the front wheel)

If isn't isn't rusted there it probably isn't a daytona..

There were a couple flavors of 'normal' or not Shelby models.

The Shelby guarantee's all the fun stuff.. (big brakes, sway bars, stifferish stock springs, 'real' engine with the forged crank, heavy rods, 555 transmission, stock intercooler)

But the C/S models depending on the year could have some of that or all of it..

ES cars.. at least in 89 had slightly softer springs, a slightly smaller sway bar, and the 2.5 turbo 1 engine.. This has the bigger crank which IMO beats the forged one The more desirable stock con Rods.. but the engine is choked with a little Mitsubishi turbo instead of the Garret turbo... And it is going to have a 520 transmission instead of the 555.. Same case.. different gears and Differential.. Well.. The trannies are also like legos.. 'hybrids' 555/520 crossbreeds are common to get the best of both worlds.. it is cheaper to have a cheap OBX limited slip in a 520 than a Quaife in a 555..

Travis_K
Travis_K SuperDork
1/17/12 10:44 a.m.

The other good thing about the 2.5 one is they seem to be far less likely to have bad rod bearings as the 2.2 with the forged crank. The only turbo dodge engines with a rod knock I have seen were shelby daytonas.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic SuperDork
1/17/12 12:25 p.m.
Travis_K wrote: The other good thing about the 2.5 one is they seem to be far less likely to have bad rod bearings as the 2.2 with the forged crank. The only turbo dodge engines with a rod knock I have seen were shelby daytonas.

Is there a fix for that when doing a rebuild?

I am going to be looking for a Shelby pretty much exclusively.

turboswede
turboswede SuperDork
1/17/12 1:51 p.m.
Travis_K wrote: The other good thing about the 2.5 one is they seem to be far less likely to have bad rod bearings as the 2.2 with the forged crank. The only turbo dodge engines with a rod knock I have seen were shelby daytonas.

Which is odd because the 2.5 is more prone to detonation (more dwell time at the top of the stroke, no intercooler, tiny turbo, etc)

I suspect the 2.2 is more prone to rod knock because they are simply driven harder (usually mated to 5-speeds) Combined with the usual deferred or lacking maintenance and you get some that just don't live very long. Properly maintained, they'll go 200+K.

turboswede
turboswede SuperDork
1/17/12 1:53 p.m.
93EXCivic wrote:
Travis_K wrote: The other good thing about the 2.5 one is they seem to be far less likely to have bad rod bearings as the 2.2 with the forged crank. The only turbo dodge engines with a rod knock I have seen were shelby daytonas.

Is there a fix for that when doing a rebuild?

I am going to be looking for a Shelby pretty much exclusively.

Typically after about 150K the 2.2 bottom ends need to be torn down and freshened up. Just a fact of life as most owners don't change the oil properly and many drive the cars with blown/leaking headgaskets which can hammer rods and bearings. Plus the extra boost of the 2.2 over the 2.5 increases the compression in the cylinders and adds more load on the 2.2 bottom end.

Many seem to show signs of oil starvation on the number 3 or 4 rod, which is near where the turbo oil feed is picked up. Original oil feed line spec from Garrett was 1/8", but it was deemed to fragile for production, which was changed to 1/4" and could be why they have issues, but hasn't been completely proven from what I can tell.

A good rebuild to factory specs will work for another 150K or more, this could be improved by using common oil flow improvements, which most are relatively cheap and easy to implement.

Things like adding a crank scraper, baffled oil pan, port-matching the oil pump inlet on the engine block to the oil pump, running ARP hardware with good machine work on the rods and adding an oil cooler all help.

Using a good high-quality synthetic is a given with a turbocharged car. Also, do not use FRAM filters, they suck and contribute to oil starvation (the number of 2.2 and 2.5's I've seen with rattling top ends matches the number I've seen running FRAM oil filters.)

Good luck on the search!

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