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Login to post Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Should I listen to kiddies on the Mazda forums?

July 2, 2010 10:27 a.m. z31maniac Dork

I just picked up a 2010 MazdaSpeed 3, love the car. Nearly perfect DD for someone who wants great handling, quick AND space.

But like you guys, a little more powah is always nice. However, I've read of lots zoom zoom BOOM! With guys modding their cars.

I'm not looking to do anything extreme, ie cranking up the boost and such, but would at least like to do an intake/exhaust just to free up the HP that's been left on the table by restrictive OE stuff.

And with minor mods, it's easy to return to stock to go to the dealer for warranty trips.

Thoughs on this car?
July 2, 2010 10:30 a.m. Raze HalfDork

Brakes, tires, suspension in that order, afterall, the most 'power' left on the table is that which is rendered unusable by physics...

(I know it's got a stiff ride to begin with, least the 1st gen does, dunno how much more you can squeeze w/o ruining DD comfort)

How's the MS3 setup as far as additional boost goes? How much duty is the stock fuel system at under full load? I'm guessing the Zoom, Zoom, BOOM guys don't know they need to add fuel with their boost, or that the parts aren't designed for 50% more stress when they start cranking things up.

How efficient is the stock intercooler?, exhaust will help turbo spool but seeings as you have a cat in the way, unless you'd like to go with a less restrictive one well you're kinda always going to have decent backpressure on the turbo...
July 2, 2010 10:33 a.m. Junkyard_Dog HalfDork

I'm pretty sure a magazine did an article or two on this very subject
July 2, 2010 10:45 a.m. mndsm HalfDork

The 2010 is squishy compared to the 1g cars, and the 1g cars were squishy to me. Set of sway bars took care of that..... but yeah. Wider wheels and tires, suspension bits, etc. Zoom Zoom boom on these is because most of the people are idiots. The #4 rod likes to go, but that's because of fuel starvation. When you start putting giant PSI at it, the CDFP runs out of juice and gives up the ghost. Fuel pump internals take care of that. People also like to complain about sneezing turbo seals, but that's because they're spiking to some silly PSI when they drop a downpipe on it w/o any tuning. My car personally is making ~+40hp vs. stock on minimal mods, and other than vac leak that I created by fiddling with my boost guage at 2am (1g cars did not have them stock) I have not had a bit of a problem with that.
July 2, 2010 11:19 a.m. z31maniac Dork

Junkyard_Dog wrote:

I'm pretty sure a magazine did an article or two on this very subject

Except there are no tuning options for the Gen2s at the moment.
July 2, 2010 11:19 a.m. Raze HalfDork

mndsm wrote:

The 2010 is squishy compared to the 1g cars, and the 1g cars were squishy to me. Set of sway bars took care of that..... but yeah. Wider wheels and tires, suspension bits, etc. Zoom Zoom boom on these is because most of the people are idiots. The #4 rod likes to go, but that's because of fuel starvation. When you start putting giant PSI at it, the CDFP runs out of juice and gives up the ghost. Fuel pump internals take care of that. People also like to complain about sneezing turbo seals, but that's because they're spiking to some silly PSI when they drop a downpipe on it w/o any tuning. My car personally is making ~+40hp vs. stock on minimal mods, and other than vac leak that I created by fiddling with my boost guage at 2am (1g cars did not have them stock) I have not had a bit of a problem with that.

That's what I was wondering, thanks for clearing that up, if they made the cars less squishy that's a travesty, I would have thought they'd go harder, I hate most model 'improvements' to align with American tastes. How much boost does the car run stock? How much boost do people like to dump down? Is it really the fuel pump or are the injectors not up to the task? What about fuel pressure fall off?

vac leaks are part of the fun of any turbo motor
July 2, 2010 11:32 a.m. z31maniac Dork

From what I gather it's the pump.

I believe the car runs around 16psi stock. I don't want to up the boost or anything like.

All I really want to do is the Corksport intake system (intake and turbo inlet pipe), and possibly the test pipe and cat-back exhaust. And if the stock compy will handle that without giving me long term reliability problems.

Brakes? I can't imagine this car needing any more than proper pads/fluid for track duty.

Wheels/tires/suspension are also in the planning stages. I'm thinking 18x8.5" Enkei RPF1s with a sticky 245/40/18. The stock wheels are HEAVY and that would put some more rubber on the road.

It seems there aren't a ton of suspension options just yet.
July 2, 2010 11:34 a.m. alfadriver Dork

z31maniac wrote:

I just picked up a 2010 MazdaSpeed 3, love the car. Nearly perfect DD for someone who wants great handling, quick AND space.

But like you guys, a little more powah is always nice. However, I've read of lots zoom zoom BOOM! With guys modding their cars.

I'm not looking to do anything extreme, ie cranking up the boost and such, but would at least like to do an intake/exhaust just to free up the HP that's been left on the table by restrictive OE stuff.

And with minor mods, it's easy to return to stock to go to the dealer for warranty trips.

Thoughs on this car?

there's not much safe power in most modern cars. especially turb DI ones.

These things are tuned to last 150k miles, and people both complain when they don't, and complain that there has to be more power available.

I have to say, it's pretty lame that you would plan modifications that violate warranty, and then expect them to fix problems when you change it back. So you know- it's really obvious when that happens now- I know of one SHO that was returned with holes in pistons- the engine was swapped ONCE. And the owner was instructed not to come back.

Power is limited by turbo speeds, exhaust temps (into turbo), and fuel volume capablity of the pump.

If you want more power, buy a different car.

As a calibrator, it's not like we WANT to leave power on the table. And I know my fellow engineers at Mazda feel the same way.

Eric
July 2, 2010 11:46 a.m. Raze HalfDork

In reply to alfadriver:

Dude, did you even read his posts? Your response is pretty Snarky for a guy simply wanting advice on how to upgrade his car with the expressed interest in only his intake and exhaust tract without touching how much boost he's running and whether it's worth it or not...

Most manufactuers don't void warranties on items like cat back exhausts or intakes...
July 2, 2010 11:49 a.m. 1988RedT2 New Reader

In reply to alfadriver:

I agree!
July 2, 2010 11:51 a.m. JFX001 SuperDork

Just going from memory, but isn't there a rear motor mount mod that helps...or is that just for the first gen's?
July 2, 2010 12:03 p.m. mndsm HalfDork

Raze wrote:

mndsm wrote:

The 2010 is squishy compared to the 1g cars, and the 1g cars were squishy to me. Set of sway bars took care of that..... but yeah. Wider wheels and tires, suspension bits, etc. Zoom Zoom boom on these is because most of the people are idiots. The #4 rod likes to go, but that's because of fuel starvation. When you start putting giant PSI at it, the CDFP runs out of juice and gives up the ghost. Fuel pump internals take care of that. People also like to complain about sneezing turbo seals, but that's because they're spiking to some silly PSI when they drop a downpipe on it w/o any tuning. My car personally is making ~+40hp vs. stock on minimal mods, and other than vac leak that I created by fiddling with my boost guage at 2am (1g cars did not have them stock) I have not had a bit of a problem with that.

That's what I was wondering, thanks for clearing that up, if they made the cars less squishy that's a travesty, I would have thought they'd go harder, I hate most model 'improvements' to align with American tastes. How much boost does the car run stock? How much boost do people like to dump down? Is it really the fuel pump or are the injectors not up to the task? What about fuel pressure fall off?

vac leaks are part of the fun of any turbo motor

Car is 16psi stock. I've seen people running OTS tunes with a Cobb and popping the engines at like 23/24 psi. The problem IS the fuel pump. The internals are already pretty close to their limit, and when you start stuffing more boost down it, the pump simply cannot supply fuel, and the pressure falls off, and boom. Injectors in this thing are otherworldly. Something like ~50% of duty cycle at WOT on a stock tune.... it's absolutely ridiculous.
July 2, 2010 12:13 p.m. z31maniac Dork

^So based on that, just an intake/exhaust with no extra boost shouldn't be a big deal?

If Corksport is telling the truth, the intake/turbo pipe/test pipe is worth 40+ whp!

But I wonder if the boost psi I'd going up from removing the restriction? And if so, to what level?
July 2, 2010 12:19 p.m. mndsm HalfDork

I have those exact mods, and I have not noticed any increase in boost. I've heard of them going as high as 18psi, but it hasn't happened to me. Then again, I have a ported IM that actually dropped my boost 3 psi vs. stock due to the ECU.... so that could be a part of mine as well. And- Corksport is close. I gained ~30whp off those 3 mods. CP-E SRI, CP-E TIP and MAP test pipe. Car runs just fine with them, had em on for a few years now. Other thing to look at is the BPV, the stock plastic one is garbage. Forge makes a nice piece, and the v2 takes out the ping (Also referred to as Mario collectiong coins) upon discharge.
July 2, 2010 12:32 p.m. z31maniac Dork

So in reality, the people that are blowing up their engines are the one's turning up the boost or leaning out the AFRs up top to compensate for the lack of big fuel pump etc?

I also need to talk to my dealer on how they feel about simple mods like that.

JFX001, you are correct. I'm going to order the Corksport urethane engine mount inserts, and may also do shifter bushings/shift plate to shorten/tighten up the throws.
July 2, 2010 12:36 p.m. mndsm HalfDork

^ Exactly. Because the ECU is silly, unless you're tuning to compensate for the added airflow, it's gonna go lean due to the fuel pump, and pop goes the DISI.

Shifter bushings are probably one of the best "feel" mods you can do. REALLY tightens it up. I don't even have an STS, nor do I feel the need for one.
July 2, 2010 12:37 p.m. z31maniac Dork

So intake/exhaust = no biggie for the stock ECU or reliability then, good to know.

An additional 30-40whp plus a stickier wider tires, light wheels, lower stance and it will be perfect.
July 2, 2010 12:47 p.m. Mazdax605 HalfDork

I can't add anything to the conversation but I must say I really love those cars. I didn't like the new generation the first time I saw it,but now I really do. The big grille really blends in on the black,and looks good to me on the red as well. Not so much in the celestial blue or whatever Mazda calls it,but in red,and black it looks really nice. I test drove a red one a few months ago,and loved it. I drove a first gen that belongs to a member here as well the same day,and that was fun as well. The only bad thing I can say about the new one is that it doesn't come in white which is really the color I would want.

I would love to buy one now,keep it stock for many years,and use it only on nice days like the original owner of my 79 RX-7 did. I imagine the MS3 will be a collector car at some point being one of the baddest ride on the market now,at an affordable price. Love me some hot hatch.

Chris
July 2, 2010 1:00 p.m. z31maniac Dork

I wanted a white one as well. Sucks they get them overseas but not here.

I'm going to be very angry if they start selling the white ones for 2011.
July 2, 2010 1:05 p.m. mndsm HalfDork

Heh, they did that same damn thing to me. I bought mine in black, because they didn't offer it in white, and a year and a half later (08.5 to be exact, my car is an 07) damn things come out in white, with piano black interior trim, cooler lookin gauges, and black suede seat centers (at least on the GT package). I've been tempted to swap it more than once.
July 2, 2010 7:48 p.m. alfadriver Dork

Raze wrote:

In reply to alfadriver:

Dude, did you even read his posts? Your response is pretty Snarky for a guy simply wanting advice on how to upgrade his car with the expressed interest in only his intake and exhaust tract without touching how much boost he's running and whether it's worth it or not...

Most manufactuers don't void warranties on items like cat back exhausts or intakes...

Hell, yea, I'm sanrky. Having seen what people have tried to do on Ecoboost Engines, and bragging about it message boards, only to have their engies blow up, and expect us to pay for them!

Sorry I missed the non boost increase mod, but whenever I see "what I can undo...." I really jump. Seen too many people try to fraud too many car companies.

Basically, if you can't afford to fix it yourself, you should not do the modification.

Eric
July 2, 2010 8:09 p.m. Marty! Dork

I understand your point Eric. I was at a car show last week talking with a vendor about their turbo kits. I explained I was kinda shopping around but will have to wait 'til my car was out of warranty first before installing one. He then proceeded to tell me to don't worry about that - that they have a extremley good relationship with their local GM dealer (wink, wink, nudge, nudge).

I can't see GM being very happy knowing that one of their dealers were warranting cars that have had a 110 hp increase over stock.
July 3, 2010 8:05 p.m. fastmiata Reader

We did the Corksport Intake and cold air box for my wife's MS6. It is a great kit and has worked great. 30hp is about right plus it seemed to move the torque range a little bit lower. I rarely drive the car except on long trips or whatever. It is fun to nail the throttle at 80mph and feel the turbo kick in but you better make sure that there are no cops in the vicinity because you will be doing over 100mph very soon. YMMV
July 5, 2010 10:38 p.m. sergio New Reader

I have an 07 Speed3 with 41k. Mods are, Mazdaspeed CAI, CPE trans mount, 3.25" top mount intercooler, CPE fuel pump, CPE 3" catted downpipe and a boost gauge. All the mods were installed with less than 10k on it.

The intake and downpipe made the biggest butt dyno difference. Boost is stock. I have no idea what kind of power it's making, but it's plenty fast and fun.
July 5, 2010 10:45 p.m. irish44j HalfDork

mndsm wrote:

The 2010 is squishy compared to the 1g cars, and the 1g cars were squishy to me. Set of sway bars took care of that..... but yeah.

I'll second this from an outside viewpoint - I've run for a couple seasons against a pair of 1g MS3s, pretty much stock except maybe tires and sways, and they are pretty much dead even with me (09 wrx on RE01Rs with sways). This season at least three 2010's have showed up to events and all three of them have been far behind me and the 1g MS3s.

Since these guys are my main competition (plus some other subies), I watch their runs pretty closely and the 2010s really do not appear to be as tight-handling.

In short, I would go suspension first and then worry about power.....which is what all the MS3 guys I know have done and continue to love their cars. If the new ones are indeed "squishier" all the more reason to do suspension!

Again, just an outsider view.

Plus...that smiley face.....

Also with regard to the intake - IDK if the MS3 applies the same, but the general thought with WRXs is that the stock intake is fine up to/past "stage 2"...and also its highly suggested to get a tune even if just bolting on an intake, as it negatively affects our a/f mix. All the MS3 guys I know have stock intakes, for what it is worth.

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