So how do you learn how to drive manual "good"?

In reply to mainlandboy:

My 1996 Ford F-150 has a 5-speed and foot operated parking brake.

You really don't need a parking brake to get started on a hill..

my early '60's Ford 9 passenger wagon had a foot operated parking brake .. as best I can remember (390, 4 barrel, 3 on the tree, no power brakes, no power steering) …

for that matter, when foot operated parking brakes were the norm, were there other kind ? … I do remember T handle pull on parking brakes … were they available at the same time as foot operated ones ?

my '50 Plymouth, while it had a hand pull p/e brake … that brake didn't operate either the front OR the rear drum brakes

Trans_Maro wrote: In reply to mainlandboy: My 1996 Ford F-150 has a 5-speed and foot operated parking brake. You really don't need a parking brake to get started on a hill..

depends on the steepness of the hill, and the competence of the driver

in snowy weather I've actually found it quite useful … and on my driveway (picture a 36° up hill driveway … if for some reason you stop part way up, and don't want to have the drive tires try to dig their way to China, the parking brake does help

Two of my Fairmonts were original 4-speed cars with foot-operated e-brakes. It's really not all that bad to use it to help pull out on a hill. It still has a t-handle to release it. The one that would suck would be on a '91ish T-bird, which you pushed again to release. I don't think there's a way to use that to pull out, unless there's some crazy way to heel-toe it.

Now you've got me racking my brain to think if I've ever seen a manual transmission car with a foot operated parking brake. Bonus points if you can name one that also has a dead pedal for a grand total of 5 pedals for 2 feet!

All of my old k-cars had pedal parking brakes (with manual or auto) but i have never seen a car with both a dead pedal and parking brake pedal.

as for foot operated parking brake and dead pedal … I've not had enough of the foot operated parking brake cars, or driven enough of them to notice if they had both …

or else I'm just getting old and loosing my memory and just don't remember one way or the other

I need to re-read thread becase I'm getting the hang of it really well but I'm averaging 19mpg when I should be around 26 in city. Maybe because I'm rev matching everything. I need to be faster with my shifts so I dont loose the rpms.

EPA 26MPG probably assumes a rather light foot and non-matched downshifts like the average person does. Any time you hit the gas you're...well, using more gas, so that's something to keep in mind.

the damn car just beckons me to floor it on every backroad and stoplight.

Thats the thing with turbo cars. Once you get into boost it uses a ton more fuel than another similarly sized non turbo engine. If you dont have one stock, get a boost gauge to be able to keep an eye on keeping it out of positive pressure, will help a ton on mpg.

When you say rev matching everything, you mean upshifts too? Honestly you shouldn't be doing enough hardcore manual driving yet to rarely ever need many downshifts, just stay in the right gear. As I said before dont bother with rev matching or anything fancy yet. PRACTICE BASIC MANUAL DRIVING SKILLS FIRST then once you have mastered that move on to more indepth manual transmission opperation. Learn what gear is for what speed range and you shouldnt be rev matching going down through each gear, just the one you intend on going in. Again this is for basic noobie opperation of a manual, once you have a year under your belt and are totally comfortable and shift subconsciously then move on to more indepth stuff.

Coldsnap wrote: I need to re-read thread becase I'm getting the hang of it really well but I'm averaging 19mpg when I should be around 26 in city. Maybe because I'm rev matching everything. I need to be faster with my shifts so I dont loose the rpms.

more for your learning curve your car will operate perfectly fine at much lower RPM's than you're probably using right now … though it being a small displacement/turbo car (as is mine) to do this will be (as I mentioned first) more for your learning curve …

I can drive mine, in the city, at no more than 1100 - 1200 rpm … and as long as I'm not trying to climb a hill, or beat someone to the next light … and the engine is fine with what I'm doing ..

if you have any friends that are long time manual drivers, and AREN'T the next WDC … get them to drive your car, and show you how it will operate at lower RPM's than what you've been doing …

there are all kinds of tricks to increasing your gas milage .. easing away from a traffic light, lifting (even popping it into neutral) as you approach a traffic light (that's already turning red)

it's all in the learning … I'm glad I learned when folk weren't much concerned with milage (gas was 30¢ a gal when I started )

we're in the same state and I'd be happy to help … the only real problem is this state is LONG … you're at least 4 hrs away if not a bit more

I've never used a parking brake on hills to start, but I live in Saskatchewan, too, so that might contribute to it...

When you say rev matching everything, you mean upshifts too?

The only way you can rev match an upshift is waiting the right amount of time in neutral for the trans internals to spin down to the next gear's rpm before engaging the gear. Usually that happens so quickly that it wouldnt look like you were doing anything out of the ordinary and it would have nothing to do with the throttle or double clutching. I kind of feel like it should be assumed and not even have a term associated with it.

In reply to Vigo: I'm just asking because he's had a manual what almost 2 weeks? And that he keeps saying how slow his shifts are. I'm asking him to understand but trust me I know how it works...

Right. SO even on upshifts I'm giving it some gas to keep my RPMs around 3k. Just because by the time I shift my RPMs are in like the 1k.

Coldsnap wrote: Right. SO even on upshifts I'm giving it some gas to keep my RPMs around 3k. Just because by the time I shift my RPMs are in like the 1k.

Can't believe this thread is still going lol. Just get your motions down. You're not tearing anything up. Once you have everything down, you will shift before the engine has time to wind down that much. Don't think about being at a specific RPM. Think about making a smooth transition from gear to gear. Take it easy and don't hotrod. See how it feels.

You should be coming off the gas fully, you can move the shift lever with quite a bit of authority without hurting anything. It should be off gas/clutch in (simultaneously), some degree of delay (maybe 1 second) for rev match, shift to next gear, off clutch fast, and then on gas again. Or when driving aggressively you pretty much just ram the lever into the next gear without waiting any, this is of course hard on the synchronizers but nothing of concern unless you're beating it all day every day.

You shouldn't be touching the gas during upshifts at all...it sounds like you need a friend who knows how to drive stick to take your car out with you and show you how it's done. IMO this thread has tried to give far too much advanced-level advice to someone who's just starting out.

OK, so I missed this thread and haven't read the whole thing yet. But I do have some advice for becoming better and smoother at stick. Do you have a dog? Sit the dog in the front seat (appropriately belted in) and watch their head and body movement in your peripheral vision when you shift. They don't know when the shifts are going to happen like a human, so they don't really brace themselves for it. Smoother you are, the less the dog reacts. (I learned this with ex-SWMBO's dog who loved riding in my Miata.)

For downshifting and revmatching, start with just revmatching with no brakes first, like if you need to downshift for a hill. Then practice coming up to stop signs with no one around. You want to practice constant brake pressure. You can do this in the garage by braking and practice rolling your foot over to the gas. Watch the brake pedal and make sure it doesn't move when you do it. Then you can practice while braking at stop signs or in a parking lot.

I won't get into double clutching yet Good luck!

Hahaha, six pages of people pontificating about the proper way to drive stick. You know what? Two basic rules:

1: If it makes the car jerk, you could probably be doing something better. Try not to make the car jerk.

2: If it makes a bad noise, you could probably be doing something better. Try not to let the car make bad noises.

Its as simple as that, really.

You achieve mastery of manual transmission operation by ...practice....

Learned on a '53 Jeep 3 spd non-synchro at the advanced age of 10. Graduated to a '62 Volvo 122S

Didn't drive an automatic until drivers' ed in HS.

To my knowledge my uncle never owned an automatic in his life.

I don't recall the first manual car I drove. I never had any instrucion on it or anything. I worked at a garage while in high school and that's where I drove my first. I had a real good understanding of the mechanics of what was involved in the process so that helped I'm sure. Only two out of the several dozen cars I've owned have been manual. Both of them E21 BMW's.

Just drive, frequently and often. You'll get it down soon enough. All the fancy stuff comes later.