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irish44j
irish44j UberDork
8/6/13 10:40 p.m.
Vigo wrote:
Having owned one of each, a 2000-2001 Maxima crushes a same-year accord in almost every performance measure stock for stock (and with equal modifications). An 02-03 Maxima with the VQ35 does the same, but even moreso. A VQ30 Maxima might not fare well against the current Accord, but it wouldn't be totally lopsided. The main thing, though, is that the VQ30/35 can take a beating on the track without much issue risk. Especially the VQ30, which is pretty damn bulletproof.

Yeah, im not a fan of the 98-02 accords. They were not among the 2 year ranges i named as liking. But im not a big fan of 00-02 maximas either. I prefer the 4g except for the 2003 3.5 in which case the motor justifies the rest of the car vs a 4g.

02 had the 3.5 also ;)

The ideal maxima for me is a 3rd gen (since it has IRS) with a 3.5 swap :)

Derick Freese
Derick Freese UltraDork
8/6/13 11:26 p.m.

Third gen Accords have oiling problems if you don't modify the oil pickup. So do second gen Preludes. Over on 3geez, we have a dirt track guy that's gone through 2 motors in his last 2 races, and a Chump car that lost an engine early in the race. Those are just the most recent racing related A series engine deaths that I can remember off the top of my head.

fidelity101
fidelity101 Dork
8/7/13 8:26 a.m.

Run what your brung I guess...

Vigo
Vigo UltraDork
8/7/13 10:46 a.m.

Ive embarassed sports cars with my FWD family cars at EVERY SINGLE autocross ive ever been to.

In fact, it's been my experience that car enthusiasts in general are still SO BAD at driving that it outweighs any performance benefits from their RWD/Sporty-car snobbery most of the time.

So i pretty much regard most people's disdain for mundane FWD vehicles as being 95% based on aesthetics and 5% based on performance deficits that they may or may NOT be able to prove with their own driving abilities, whereas other people probably look at it as more like ~40% aesthetic and 60% undeniable performance advantage that they have no doubt would show up on the track.

mtn
mtn UltimaDork
8/7/13 11:03 a.m.
Vigo wrote: Ive embarassed sports cars with my FWD family cars at EVERY SINGLE autocross ive ever been to. In fact, it's been my experience that car enthusiasts in general are still SO BAD at driving that it outweighs any performance benefits from their RWD/Sporty-car snobbery most of the time. So i pretty much regard most people's disdain for mundane FWD vehicles as being 95% based on aesthetics and 5% based on performance deficits that they may or may NOT be able to prove with their own driving abilities, whereas other people probably look at it as more like ~40% aesthetic and 60% undeniable performance advantage that they have no doubt would show up on the track.

I've finished top ten pax in AWD, RWD, and FWD. (I've finished top ten raw only in RWD, but that is because none of the AWD or FWD would have a chance at it). On a percentage basis, I have done much better in AWD and FWD than RWD. But FWD still feels very weird to me. It just isn't right. I HATE the feeling of torque steer, otherwise I'd probably be in an SRT-4/cobaltSS/Acura something. Probably has something to do with the fact that I learned to drive on BMW's, Crown Vics and Pick up trucks.

So for me, it is asethectics. Using a Pax basis, you could argue that it is 100% so. But I will still more than likely be in RWD cars, although AWD could still convince me.

jstein77
jstein77 SuperDork
8/7/13 11:18 a.m.

Yeah, I'd never try to race one of those boring 4 door front wheel drive family cars. And finishing in the top 10 raw times would be completely out of the question.

Or not.

ransom
ransom UltraDork
8/7/13 11:19 a.m.

Aren't the engines which serial expired up in the Camry a fairly popular swap for the MR2 Spyder? I like the idea, but the Spyder certainly isn't going to generate smaller cornering loads than the Camry... Was it an oil containment issue? I know they tried an accumulator; how effective is that compared to baffling?

I don't want a Camry, but I'm awfully curious about an engine-swapped Spyder...

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
8/7/13 11:21 a.m.
ransom wrote: Aren't the engines which serial expired up in the Camry a fairly popular swap for the MR2 Spyder? I like the idea, but the Spyder certainly isn't going to generate smaller cornering loads than the Camry... Was it an oil containment issue? I know they tried an accumulator; how effective is that compared to baffling? I don't want a Camry, but I'm awfully curious about an engine-swapped Spyder...

The engines in this particular camry are often used in the earlier MR2s, usually the 2nd gens. In fact, ones of these motors, supercharged, in an SW20 MR2 won the SCC ultimate extreme y0 car challenge or whatever it was called.

The motor they're swapping into the Spyder is the 2grfe. 3.5 litre monster of a motor.

ransom
ransom UltraDork
8/8/13 11:35 a.m.

In reply to Swank Force One:

Thanks! Terrible assumption on my part; I was just thinking "V6 Camry with manual trans; that must be it!"

I have a near-total lack of clue on most of the Japanese manufacturers' engine families and designations... It just isn't sticking in my head.

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
8/8/13 11:41 a.m.
ransom wrote: In reply to Swank Force One: Thanks! Terrible assumption on my part; I was just thinking "V6 Camry with manual trans; that must be it!" I have a near-total lack of clue on most of the Japanese manufacturers' engine families and designations... It just isn't sticking in my head.

The nomenclature can really get annoying. Toyota in particular likes to make rules for naming motors, then break them immediately.

I only remember because my brain is really strange about what it will and won't absorb.

Anyways, here's a video example of a 2gr Spyder. To the best of my knowledge, this is a 100% stock motor including ECU. They pick up a lot of power with standard modifications.

http://youtu.be/5-1f4SLilSs

And a 2gr Spyder autox car.

http://youtu.be/ToRuBjrZ6ik

sethmeister4
sethmeister4 HalfDork
8/8/13 12:15 p.m.

95-99 Maxima (4th gen), or 02-03 Maxima (5.5 gen?) is where it's at for sure. I'll pit either one against a comparable Camry or Accord. 3rd gens are cool too, but a motor swap is needed to make it fast (SE's are few and far between and not the most reliable).

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
8/8/13 12:22 p.m.

You build a Maxipad, and i'll build a Camry. You wanna go dollar for dollar?

ProDarwin
ProDarwin SuperDork
8/8/13 12:31 p.m.
Swank Force One wrote: You build a Maxipad, and i'll build a Camry. You wanna go dollar for dollar?

And I'll take the Accord. In the FWD world, DWB >>>> Strut. Always.

belteshazzar
belteshazzar UberDork
8/8/13 12:40 p.m.

yeah bmw

Rupert
Rupert Reader
8/8/13 12:55 p.m.

Front Wheel Drive in Autocross? Why not, just be careful what you bring. And know how to drive it.

I personally have won "Stock Fast Time of Day" trophies with the '85 Honda CRX SI I owned for many years. I have a good friend who has done the same thing with his now ancient but still competitive and still stock square headlight Volkswagon Rabbit GTI made in West Virginia.

I agree with another writer, often it is the driving skill or in my case knowledge of how a specific car handles that wins SFTDs. I know a guy that has won a few with a Super Beetle.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla UberDork
8/8/13 12:57 p.m.
Swank Force One wrote: You build a Maxipad, and i'll build a Camry. You wanna go dollar for dollar?

Can I build an NF Sonata?

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
8/8/13 1:00 p.m.
Bobzilla wrote:
Swank Force One wrote: You build a Maxipad, and i'll build a Camry. You wanna go dollar for dollar?

Can I build an NF Sonata?

$5k beater grocery getter race cars?

Bobzilla
Bobzilla UberDork
8/8/13 1:05 p.m.

I found one locally for $4500. Just needs turbo, 9.5" wheels, 245's and suspension. Those are still double a-arm cars

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
8/8/13 1:05 p.m.
Bobzilla wrote: I found one locally for $4500

Sounds like you're going to get ghetto-stomped, then.

Since that only leaves you $500 in modifications.

moparman76_69
moparman76_69 Dork
8/8/13 1:11 p.m.

I wanna play, I'll get a stratus.

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
8/8/13 1:12 p.m.
moparman76_69 wrote: I wanna play, I'll get a stratus. 8)

In4 2.4 Turbo Stratus madness.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla UberDork
8/8/13 1:13 p.m.
moparman76_69 wrote: I wanna play, I'll get a stratus. 8)

That's fine. We're safe because wiring off the battery will just corrode into nothing.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla UberDork
8/8/13 1:13 p.m.
Swank Force One wrote:
Bobzilla wrote: I found one locally for $4500

Sounds like you're going to get ghetto-stomped, then.

Since that only leaves you $500 in modifications.

I'm sorry I found a car with resale.

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
8/8/13 1:15 p.m.
Bobzilla wrote:
Swank Force One wrote:
Bobzilla wrote: I found one locally for $4500

Sounds like you're going to get ghetto-stomped, then.

Since that only leaves you $500 in modifications.

I'm sorry I found a car with resale.

Resale is not a measured performance metric in this competition. This isn't Top Gear.

Race cars don't have resale value.

Also see: The $200k Nissan Sentra race team for sale for $15k.

Tyler H
Tyler H SuperDork
8/8/13 1:41 p.m.
Tyler H wrote:
Swank Force One wrote: I'm not real sure what the deal is with this motor, to be quite honest. These motors don't have these issues in MR2s when they're swapped in, pulling more Gs. There's been a couple of those motors put into Celicas, 5th gens in particular, then used on the track and autocross situations, and they didn't blow up. I wish i had more time/space at the moment. I've always actually liked these motors, and would love to build a car around one. I'd put one in the Escort in a heartbeat if it were legal for my class.

I have a 1MZFE in an MR2. I can tell you that these blow up "a lot" on track and agree with Vigo -- there's something up with them. One person started his swap with a brand new OEM long block and it blew up on track within 20k miles. It's generally accepted in the MR2 world that an accumulator is a must for track duty.

OTOH, several of guys in the MR2 world have figured it out and V6 MR2s are frontrunners in Chump and have been on the podium.

In general, the recipe is an accumulator, cooler and homebrew oil pan / windage tray. If there are extra tricks, nobody's talking.

A couple days after this post I put an Accusump on mine and beat it mercilessly all day in 100 degree heat at Atlanta Motorsports Park. No oil consumption, no issues. 235k unopened engine. YMMV, but the accumulator was definitely doing its thing.

Going back to AMP in September and Barber in Nov. I'll let you know when it blows up.

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