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Coldsnap
Coldsnap Dork
10/22/16 12:25 p.m.

Just got back from getting a pretty terrible alignment, you get what you pay for that's for sure... I was wondering though (and pointed out by a member here) looking at their measurement when done. The 240 Volvo rear axle is solid, shouldn't it read 0.0?

mainlandboy
mainlandboy Reader
10/22/16 12:38 p.m.

There is going to be a bit of tolerance from the factory on how square/perpendicular the axle tubes are to the differential, so don't be surprised if it's not bang on zero. While on the subject, I've heard of guys who heat and bend the axle tubes very slightly to get a bit negative camber. Of course, the axles will limit how far you can go.

Opti
Opti HalfDork
10/22/16 12:46 p.m.

Your total toe is almost 0 which means they are pretty much parrallel but thrust angle is off a little. Meaning that axle is not perfactly perpendicular to the vehicle's centerline.

And yes, ideally you would have 0 camber, but parts get wore out and bent or tweaked, and the acceptable variance on machines like that is something like .1. Plus your only talking 2 tenths of one degree. Nothing too abnormal for a car that old.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy PowerDork
10/22/16 12:51 p.m.

The toe evens out, .02 is closer to zero than anyone could expect it to be. Soft bushing on one side would let the diff sit not quite square in the body, making the machine read toe as in on one side, out on the other. That shows up as the thrust angle.

Camber is negative one side, positive the other leaving a .1 difference, so that probably means the rolling diameter of the right tire is smaller.

Don't sweat it.

Coldsnap
Coldsnap Dork
10/22/16 12:52 p.m.

Gotcha, gotcha. Now for my front alignment.. didn't seem like they did a good job.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy PowerDork
10/22/16 1:00 p.m.

Probably as close as they can get. Pretty limited adjustment available in a 240, with nothing for caster. The RF camber, if they can't get into range, probably means something is a wee bit bent. If you go look at the slotted adjustment and find one side all the way out, and the other side all the way in, it might be worth investigating. In that case, something has bent a bit.

Caster is close side to side, so control arms are probably ok. Strut tubes are pretty robust, but the shock shafts can bend.

Again, if it drives down the road, don't sweat it.

Coldsnap
Coldsnap Dork
10/22/16 1:08 p.m.

It drives but car pulls to the left pretty bad

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy PowerDork
10/22/16 1:36 p.m.

Try switching the tires side to side. See if the pull follows the tire. The .4 camber split might be enough to cause a drift that way. The camber should be pretty close to the same side to side on a 240.

Knurled
Knurled GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/22/16 1:36 p.m.

In reply to Coldsnap:

That's because of the crazy high thrust angle. The rearend is steering the car to the left. Usually you only see thrust angle that high on leaf spring trucks with something bent. (Or old X-bodies or Diplomats)

You probably have a bent suspension link or bent chassis or something for it to be that far off. Check your wheelbase side to side, betcha the left side is a lot shorter than the right.

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/22/16 1:46 p.m.

I am going to say bad bushings for the thrust angle to be that far off

Coldsnap
Coldsnap Dork
10/22/16 1:57 p.m.

Hmm I do have a knock on the rear axle even after replacing all bushings.

Best way to measure wheelbase?

Coldsnap
Coldsnap Dork
10/22/16 2:11 p.m.

Maybe my panhard bar bushings are way more gone than I thought they were usually don't go so I didn't replace them but I can't remember if those are the ones that handle axle perpendicularity

mck1117
mck1117 GRM+ Memberand New Reader
10/22/16 2:36 p.m.

You probably need the big bushings that go between the trailing arm and the axle. Does the pull change at all when you're on the gas/brakes? Mine would pull one way on the gas, and the other on the brakes as the axle was trying to "steer" the car.

Coldsnap
Coldsnap Dork
10/22/16 2:41 p.m.

I did the trailing arm bushings, was a giant PITA. Did torque rods, trailing arm bushings rear (the big ones, left the fronts as they looked fine). Panhard bar the only thing that's left, I guess theoretically it could be causing that. I have bushings for it laying around and I think my friend has a spare one we can press them in...

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy PowerDork
10/22/16 6:30 p.m.

I don't think the rear axle being a bit out of line will cause a pull. I've driven a boatload of 240's in the 35 years I've been servicing them, and rear bushing problems may make them wander, but won't make the steering pull.

You did well if you got those trailing arm bushings in by yourself.

Knurled
Knurled GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/22/16 6:57 p.m.
Streetwiseguy wrote: I don't think the rear axle being a bit out of line will cause a pull. I've driven a boatload of 240's in the 35 years I've been servicing them, and rear bushing problems may make them wander, but won't make the steering pull. You did well if you got those trailing arm bushings in by yourself.

It's been my experience that any thrust angle over about .10 degrees will be noticeable. This car has .30 degrees. That is practically as bad as a mid 70's Chevy Nova.

Coldsnap
Coldsnap Dork
10/22/16 7:57 p.m.

I think the best I can do is take out the panhard bar and get new bushings pressed in. When I place it in I'll looses all rear suspension bits a bit. Lower can to ground then torque everything to spec. If it's still not centered then I got no idea, will just drive it off a cliff.

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess MegaDork
10/22/16 8:00 p.m.

From what I've read, the ideal camber is -1 degree. That is, the tire, with respect to the road, at -1 degree give the most grip. I have also heard of racers creatively "bumping" things so that their solid axles are optimized in classes that forbid modifications.

BrokenYugo
BrokenYugo UltimaDork
10/22/16 8:05 p.m.

Could negative camber in a stick axle be explained by a worn wheel bearing? Do the rear tires match? Were tire pressures checked before the alignment?

Stefan (Not Bruce)
Stefan (Not Bruce) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/22/16 10:23 p.m.

In reply to Coldsnap:

Buy or Build an adjustable panhandle rod and adjust it to resolve the issue.

Measure the stock unit for length and the diameter of the bushings and search for an aftermarket panhard rod of the similar length. Adapt the bushing diameters to the rod ends.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy PowerDork
10/22/16 11:17 p.m.

A panhard rod won't alter the rear thrust angle.

Have you switched the front tires side to side yet?

mck1117
mck1117 GRM+ Memberand New Reader
10/23/16 12:47 a.m.

In reply to Streetwiseguy:

Mine managed to pull pretty bad. One of the bushings was intact, and the other was completely gone. You could see how that could cause a considerably different thrust angle when on the gas/brakes.

Knurled
Knurled GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/23/16 5:44 a.m.
BrokenYugo wrote: Could negative camber in a stick axle be explained by a worn wheel bearing? Do the rear tires match? Were tire pressures checked before the alignment?

Axles can bend, and after they've been on the road a while they usually are bent a little.

Almost every solid axle RX-7 that I've had on a rack had about half a degree of negative camber in the back, both sides Granted, they're a thin sheetmetal stamping, not thick tubes pressed into a cast housing like whatever flavor of Dana is in a Volvo.

Coldsnap
Coldsnap Dork
10/23/16 7:38 a.m.

One of my trailing arm bushing was real bad, I betcha that sides panhard bar bushing is gone. I'll investigate further maybe.

Knurled
Knurled GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/23/16 8:19 a.m.

A Panhard bushing won't affect toe unless you have a truck arm suspension or your lower links are otherwise heavily angled. Don't stress over them, address the lower links first.

Shame on the alignment shop for not seeing the bad bushing. A complete tire and suspension inspection is the first thing to do before you even hang the heads on the wheels.

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