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Harvey
Harvey Dork
5/13/17 9:39 a.m.

https://www.flyinmiata.com/V8/for_sale.html

It's interesting though how much this will sell for. There seems to be a definite divide on whether a modified car sells for a premium or not. I guess it comes down to the name and reputation of the builder?

This also isn't a question of whether this car is worth what they are asking either, just sort of an observation or talking point regarding the subject.

DrBoost
DrBoost MegaDork
5/13/17 10:58 a.m.

I think you can expect to lose at least 1-2 the money you put into mods. But in this, and a few other cases, the builder has built enough of a "brand" or following because of the high build quality that the taking price will be much higher.
FM cars always seem to sell well.

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
5/13/17 12:01 p.m.

I have a hard time justifying that price when c5 and c6 Corvettes are selling for much less. However there is the unique aspect is these and the exceptional quality of the FM conversion that adds significantly to the value as opposed to an off the shelf Corvette.

icaneat50eggs
icaneat50eggs Dork
5/13/17 1:06 p.m.
dean1484 wrote: I have a hard time justifying that price when c5 and c6 Corvettes are selling for much less. However there is the unique aspect is these and the exceptional quality of the FM conversion that adds significantly to the value as opposed to an off the shelf Corvette.

Weird, what attracts you to the vette instead? I'd never buy a used vette at that price precisely because you could buy a fm built v8 miata for the same amount. To me the miat does everything better than the vette

yupididit
yupididit Dork
5/13/17 1:52 p.m.

2004 ls swapped miata or c6 z06? You can get a c6z with heads already done for that price and half the miles on the car.

That swap is clean as hell though.

Harvey
Harvey Dork
5/13/17 2:01 p.m.
icaneat50eggs wrote:
dean1484 wrote: I have a hard time justifying that price when c5 and c6 Corvettes are selling for much less. However there is the unique aspect is these and the exceptional quality of the FM conversion that adds significantly to the value as opposed to an off the shelf Corvette.

Weird, what attracts you to the vette instead? I'd never buy a used vette at that price precisely because you could buy a fm built v8 miata for the same amount. To me the miat does everything better than the vette

Well, you can fit a 10" wheel with a 275 up front on my C6 Z06 and a 12" rear with a 335 on the back without any modifications.

The stock brakes are three piston caliper fronts and two piston caliper rears with venting and the rotors are 355mm front and 340mm rear.

It has the LS7 motor which has 505hp and revs to 7000rpm.

It's also not a convertible and overall structurally a lot stronger than an NB Miata and IMO more comfortable overall to drive.

I'm sure Flyin' Miata have built Miatas that equal or better the overall level of performance of the C6 Z06 Corvette, but this isn't one of them and those cars are going to be much more expensive. The brakes on this one are stock and the VMAXX extreme coilovers are on the low end of coilover setups.

I guess if you want to cruise around and once in a while blip the throttle a bit this car is okay, but it's certainly not up to any really hard driving with the amount of power it has. It doesn't even have a roll bar.

A friend of mine just bought a C6 Z06 with 34k miles for $30k. This car seems like the bargain end of the V8 Miata conversions done by FM and the asking is $36k used with cosmetic damage.

Huckleberry
Huckleberry MegaDork
5/13/17 2:27 p.m.

If they can move that quickly for that price more power to them. For $36k you really, really have to specifically want a v8 Miata with someone else's labor rolled into the price ... and nothing else will do.

For me... a lot of other stuff would do just fine.

Rodan
Rodan Reader
5/13/17 2:45 p.m.

The value is in the FM build, and FM built cars usually sell in this price range. As noted, this particular car gives up some value in the stock brakes and suspension.

We did the C6 'Vette thing a few years ago, and it was a frustrating, expensive POS. Had so many issues I didn't keep it long enough to track it. For equal money, I'd take the FM car seven days a week and twice on Sunday. At least I know the Miata probably got screwed together properly at the factory, and that FM has some pride in their work...

icaneat50eggs
icaneat50eggs Dork
5/13/17 3:13 p.m.

Ok now a c6 z06 would at least make me think.

Miata is ahead on hp/weight, but I'll admit the tire size limit is my main concern on the Miata front.

Vette you have the 50 year old man with chest hair stereotypes vs the Miatas fabulous hairdresser.

A big part for me.is you show up in a c6 z06 everyone knows your fast vs what looks like just another boring miata

yupididit
yupididit Dork
5/13/17 3:14 p.m.

In reply to Rodan:

Sorry your c6 experience sucked. Do you think that your experience is what majority of c6 owners go through? So bad that a 36k ls swap nb miata makes more sense than a c6z with 30k miles?

I know FM does amazing things. But, this car wasn't setup to do anything with what's under the hood.

Rodan
Rodan Reader
5/13/17 6:23 p.m.
yupididit wrote: In reply to Rodan: Sorry your c6 experience sucked. Do you think that your experience is what majority of c6 owners go through? So bad that a 36k ls swap nb miata makes more sense than a c6z with 30k miles? I know FM does amazing things. But, this car wasn't setup to do anything with what's under the hood.

I don't think my experience was 'typical', but all of the issues I had were well documented on the forums.

C6Z v. LS3 Miata:

You're really talking similar performance levels, assuming good suspension and brakes on the Miata, and equivalent rubber given the weight difference. 'Vette probably gets the nod for all out potential, but not by much, and most drivers (including me) are not going to get into that territory at HPDE, certainly not on the street.

Consumables on the 'Vette will be far more expensive, and the Miata will be easier on the drivetrain. The 'Vette is a better GT. If the heads haven't been fixed on the C6Z, get ready to open the wallet...

What it really comes down to is 'fun to drive', which is really a personal thing. For me it's the one you probably won't find at Carmax... Also, having been around both, I like the Miata crowd better than the 'Vette crowd.

mad_machine
mad_machine MegaDork
5/13/17 8:21 p.m.
yupididit wrote: In reply to Rodan: Sorry your c6 experience sucked. Do you think that your experience is what majority of c6 owners go through? So bad that a 36k ls swap nb miata makes more sense than a c6z with 30k miles? I know FM does amazing things. But, this car wasn't setup to do anything with what's under the hood.

I can't offer much but to say that a co-workers C6 is in the shop all the time. It makes my Disco look like a Toyota in regards to reliablity

Vigo
Vigo UltimaDork
5/13/17 11:48 p.m.

I figured it was an easy sell for 15k. Then i saw it was a 505hp LS and thought maybe 20.

Harvey
Harvey Dork
5/14/17 12:32 a.m.

I try to do my own work on the C6 Z06 or if it's a little out of my wheelhouse I get one of my mechanic friends to shade tree it. The clutch needed to be swapped and I had it done by a local shop. I bought the car remote on the cheap and didn't get it inspected, that's my fault, not an issue specific to the car. You do have to drop the whole drivetrain to get the clutch out so it is a few grand to get it done.

I had a friend swap the heads just in case (a new motor is $17000, so better safe than sorry) and I did the brakes on the car. It was $1400 for the heads built to stock specs with different guides. Most people add more power when they have the heads off, because the cam is right there. Another grand or so and you're into 600hp+ territory, naturally aspirated. As far as the LS7 engine goes anyone can do the head swap or any other work on it that has worked on any relatively recent Chevrolet small block. It's the same basic layout.

Brakes I bought the slotted and drilled Powerstop rotors and Z26 pads which totaled $550 for all four corners. They aren't the best brakes out there, but they will stand up to a track day and autocross is no problem. Upgraded brakes that will stop a V8 Miata aren't going to be stock Miata brakes cheap.

The C6 Z06 has stability control in addition to ABS, which I actually highly value when street driving the car.

That said, we are now comparing reliability and cost between a Miata that has had a Corvette drivetrain swapped into it with a Corvette. How is the swapped Miata going to be more reliable? If anything you're going to have to deal with issues that are specific to that particular car since it's a hand built car. Issues that no one else other than you probably experiences.

The C6 Z06 Vette at a track or autocross destroys any swapped Miata that hasn't had what amounts to new Z06 Vette money put into it (it's $50k for a turn key car on top of the Miata you have to provide and that doesn't include things like fitting larger wheels), and we're talking now a mostly stock Z06 Vette vs a highly modified Miata. Give the Z06 shocks, alignment and tires and it's basically ready to go. That's all I've done to my car and I can do anything with it. The best part about the Z06 is that it's a GT car when you want it to be. It will cruise all day on the highway and get 26+MPG. Then when you get to a track or autocross it will do whatever you want it to do. It will turn and stop on a dime and has never ending power.

I had a modified Miata for a long time. You're not putting enough tire on a Miata to put down 480hp. The Z06 doesn't have enough tire to put down 505hp and it fits a huge wheel without any modifications. An NB Miata fits an 8" wheel without modifications. Take out the fender liners and roll the fenders and you're getting into 9" with 225s. After that start looking into how to cut into the fenders and make up some flares.

If you want a bespoke car that is unique with a V8 drive train then the swapped Miata is what you go for, but if you want a car that is designed for maximum performance in all areas then you get a Z06 Vette.

NOHOME
NOHOME PowerDork
5/14/17 8:05 a.m.

When you buy a V8 Miata from a person who built it himself, you are pretty much buying the collection of used parts at a discount. What you don't get is any reassurance that the conversion was done to any standard.

If you buy a FM Habu, you know that it was not only done well, ( and documented) but done by professionals as a developed process. That is the value proposition for buying this car.

yupididit
yupididit Dork
5/14/17 10:06 a.m.
oldtin
oldtin PowerDork
5/14/17 12:54 p.m.

That's turbo 996 price territory - just sayin'

Seems like they could come up with some engine covers and intake that would be unique. Corvette logos seem kind of cheesy in swapped cars no matter how good the conversion.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
5/14/17 2:02 p.m.

Ah, almost missed this conversation. Score one for vague subject lines Interesting reading. Fairly typical reactions, but more nuanced than Facebook comments.

C6 Z06 vs FM-built V8 Miata. That's always a fun one, and it's the knee-jerk reaction. There's something about that LS motor that makes people think that they're basically the same car. The Miata is lighter by about 650 lbs, more compact and more nimble. This car effectively has 30k miles on it - they're fully rebuilt when they come here with new bushings, hubs, completely new fuel and cooling systems, new suspension, a seam-welded chassis and of course a brand new drivetrain from crank pulley to lug nuts. In this case, the brakes were left alone. It retains the ABS that came from the factory.

The FM built cars aren't swapped Miatas. They're as much Miatas as a Cobra is an AC Ace. They're different cars built using the best parts of the original, but with a huge number of changes. Their selling prices reflect this - they're not really modified cars. Last week, there was another one changed hands for $43,000. It sold so fast we didn't even get a chance to list it for sale. At $36k, this is at the lower end of what we see.

yupididit wrote: I know FM does amazing things. But, this car wasn't setup to do anything with what's under the hood.

It's got the suspension and tires. So the stock brakes are only slightly modified, they're still 11" rotors and will work just fine for street use. If you want to blast around the track, any stock vehicle will need upgraded brakes. Spend $1079 on brakes and voila. You'll have new pads, lines, rotors (2-piece at the front) and new front calipers. Want a different suspension? $2000 will buy you the best on the market. Don't think the tires are big enough? You can buy another set of wheels with 245 tires on them for less than the price of a new set of tires for the Corvette. Overall, this car isn't a big stretch from my Targa Miata and I know what I get to play with when I go to the track. Not Z06s, but things like LS7 powered 911s and Vipers. Autocrossing, I used to run with the local Corvette club. On the same sort of tires, this car will run away from a C6 Z06.

Custom fuel rail covers are available all over the place. Those who don't want to advertise the Corvette heritage just leave them off, but most of our customers love the reactions people get when they see the big Corvette logo. The intake is an example of taking advantage of the millions of dollars of R&D that Chevy puts into their cars - we could come up with a custom one, but it probably wouldn't be as strong, definitely be an order of magnitude more expensive and wouldn't use parts that are on the shelf at your local Chevy dealer. That intake is from a C6 Z06, ironically.

Would this car be more reliable than a Corvette at the same price point? Well, it's sporting a drivetrain engineered for a car that weighs about 1500 lbs more. So it's all very understressed. We use as many OE parts as possible to make service easy, such as the aforementioned air filter. If you do have trouble somewhere, you can probably find the parts at either the Mazda or a GM dealer. I know that this particular car hasn't had any trouble in the past 5 years and 30,000 miles other than an engine that was bad right out of the crate. The Corvette engine GM paid to replace the 50 mile engine with another brand new crate, and it's been rock solid.

If there was only one car available at every price point, the world would be a far less interesting place. There will be a lot more people buying used Z06s than FM V8 Miatas, but there are also a lot more people selling those used Z06s. Roll up to a Cars and Coffee in this Miata, you'll have people walking over Corvettes to look at it

TeamEvil
TeamEvil Dork
5/14/17 2:51 p.m.

Don't care for the car, a little too stock looking on the outside; Miatas never thrilled me, but I LOVE those hood pins ! Gotta find a pair for mydamnself . . .

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
5/14/17 3:32 p.m.
TeamEvil
TeamEvil Dork
5/14/17 4:05 p.m.

Thanks !

Like the satin black . . .

yupididit
yupididit Dork
5/14/17 5:06 p.m.

Thanks for the insight Keith.

wheelsmithy
wheelsmithy Dork
5/14/17 6:10 p.m.

Tough crowd.

Those are a bargain (compared to anything in the ball park performance-wise) at 50 grand plus your Miata. Were I bucks up, I'd pay asking price in a heartbeat for either of the cars referenced above. This is an opinion.

Zomby Woof
Zomby Woof PowerDork
5/14/17 6:56 p.m.

I'm sure it's an impressive piece of equipment, but it's still a 2004 Miata with 85k miles on the body.

I paid half that for a C5 Z06 with one third the mileage in almost perfect condition. The price seemed fair.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
5/14/17 10:20 p.m.
Zomby Woof wrote: I'm sure it's an impressive piece of equipment, but it's still a 2004 Miata with 85k miles on the body. I paid half that for a C5 Z06 with one third the mileage in almost perfect condition. The price seemed fair.

But it's still an old Corvette that's slower than a Miata

I may have mentioned - this ISN'T a 2004 Miata. The guys buying them don't think so. The guys buying Corvettes are buying Corvettes. The guys buying an FM Habu are buying FM Habus.

If it were all about dollars per mph, then all we'd ever need would be a rental car and a big nitrous kit. There's always something cheaper, and always something more expensive that meets your personally selected criteria. Choice is good. There's room in this world for Ferraris, for Atoms, for Bentleys - cars that may not be the winners on a criteria per dollar scale, but are still aspirational for other reasons.

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