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Login to post Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Speaking of WBO2 setup...

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Aug. 5, 2011 3:21 p.m. dyintorace SuperDork

I am in need of some education on their interaction with Megasquirt. I am the proud new owner of this former Challenge car and need to get it running right in time for this year's event.

$2008/$2010 Turbo Miata for sale

Per MrJoshua's FS thread, the car suffers from:

-The car ran pig rich in $08 because the car was not seeing proper engine temperature and never got out of cold start mode. -The car also ran rich in $08 because the 255 fuel pump was overpowering the stock FPR to exacerbate the problem. -In $2010 I added the Corvette FPR and modified the fuel system to have a dual feed rail. The Corvette FPR runs at least 15psi more than the Miata FPR so again the car ran pig rich. I never did learn enough about Megasquirt to make a good map in time so I just suffered through pig rich in $2010 as well.

Given that, I know I need to get a WBO2 set up. My plan is to run that in conjunction with the MS and TunerStudio's AutoTune to help get the air/fuel mixture in line. The problem is I'm not smart enough, without guidance, to figure out how those parts interact with each other. Would all you MS experts be willing to help out? The set up on the car should be capable of good rwhp but we have a ways to go to get there.
Aug. 6, 2011 9:44 a.m. dyintorace SuperDork

Anyone?
Aug. 6, 2011 10:23 a.m. dean1484 SuperDork

The WB sends a signal to the MS. Depending on the WB you use the signal varies. I am using a SLC OEM EVk from 14Point7 and it is a 0-5 volt output 0 volt = an AFR of 10 and 5 volt = Afr of 20.

There is wiring involved with Wideband power and grounding as well as power for the sensor but all relatively easy (just read the directions).

Other Wideband units have different output ranges. If you go in the the MS software you will see that you have to first select NB or WB for the O2 sensor. Then you have to tell it what sensor it is OR manually enter the output range that the WB controller will be sending to the MS.

In case you don't know. WB sensors are not standalone like a temperature sensor. They have a controller that they plug in to. The controller is actually what sends the signal to the MS.

Does this help?
Aug. 6, 2011 10:46 a.m. Taiden HalfDork

I can't really add anything to what dean said.
Aug. 6, 2011 11:10 a.m. PhilStubbs New Reader

I see you are in Gainesville. I am in St. Augustine, this makes me really want to make a trip over there and help. I have tuned tons of hondas with every available software and some gm stuff with tunerpro, but never had the chance to touch megasquirt and always wanted to.
Aug. 6, 2011 12:04 p.m. ditchdigger Dork

And to Follow up with what Dean said:

Once you get the Sensor in and functioning with MS then you need to create an AFR target table

This will look just like your fuel table with MAP up the side and RPM along the bottom. In each of the cells you need to insert your target air fuel ratio for that range. This is what allows the VE Analyzer, Megalogviewer or megatunes autotune feature to work.

From that point start the car, get it warmed up and once you have paid to register tunerstudio open the tab for the VE analyzer, perhaps fiddle with it's max change increments, hit start and go for a drive. Then wow the dyno opoerator with how good your curves look after "tuning" it yourself.

It sounds like your car doesn't have much worth saving in the tune department. You might just start from scratch and set up a new Req. Fuel and let it spit out a new VE table.

Post some screen shots of your spark and fuel tables so we can see what they look like.
Aug. 6, 2011 2:07 p.m. dean1484 SuperDork

Thanks Ditchdigger!!! I was just trying to put that in writing next. And ya post up some screen shots of your maps.
Aug. 6, 2011 3:07 p.m. dyintorace SuperDork

Thanks folks. It's a little clearer now. I need to order a set up and was thinking about this 14point7 set up. Is this what I need? I would order the Bosch sensor as well.

http://14point7.com/SLC-Pure-Plus-2.php
Aug. 6, 2011 3:08 p.m. dyintorace SuperDork

PhilStubbs wrote:

I see you are in Gainesville. I am in St. Augustine, this makes me really want to make a trip over there and help. I have tuned tons of hondas with every available software and some gm stuff with tunerpro, but never had the chance to touch megasquirt and always wanted to.

Phil - We would welcome your help! Both MrJoshua and I are newbies when it comes to engine management and having some expertise involved would be a huge help. Could you make it over one day during the week? Or would weekends be better?
Aug. 6, 2011 4:09 p.m. donalson SuperDork

first congratz on an awesome base car :)... should be lots of fun...

as has been mentioned... pick up tunerstudio http://www.efianalytics.com/TunerStudio/ it's $50 but based on everything i've read about it it's well worth the cost

as for the wideband AF... no need for the SLC as the megasquirt will do the datalogging you need for you... if you are ok with soldering they have the SLC OEM kit with a sensor for $125...

if you want a gauge to go with it you may as well buy something else IMHO AEM pops up ebay all the time (new) for about $170 shipped... i've read a few problems with innovates.
Aug. 6, 2011 4:36 p.m. PhilStubbs New Reader

dyintorace wrote:

PhilStubbs wrote:

I see you are in Gainesville. I am in St. Augustine, this makes me really want to make a trip over there and help. I have tuned tons of hondas with every available software and some gm stuff with tunerpro, but never had the chance to touch megasquirt and always wanted to.

Phil - We would welcome your help! Both MrJoshua and I are newbies when it comes to engine management and having some expertise involved would be a huge help. Could you make it over one day during the week? Or would weekends be better?

Weekends are best. I just have to see how my $2011 build goes. I still have a good bit to do.
Aug. 6, 2011 8:32 p.m. dyintorace SuperDork

donalson wrote:

first congratz on an awesome base car :)... should be lots of fun...

as has been mentioned... pick up tunerstudio http://www.efianalytics.com/TunerStudio/ it's $50 but based on everything i've read about it it's well worth the cost

as for the wideband AF... no need for the SLC as the megasquirt will do the datalogging you need for you... if you are ok with soldering they have the SLC OEM kit with a sensor for $125...

if you want a gauge to go with it you may as well buy something else IMHO AEM pops up ebay all the time (new) for about $170 shipped... i've read a few problems with innovates.

Thanks! MrJoshua did all the hard work...I'm now hoping to piggyback off his effort!

Just ordered TunerStudio, so step 1 is done!!

On the WB front, I'll admit that I couldn't solder if I had to, and, with time being of the essence, I'm willing to pay the extra money for the ready made version. Given that, which set up would you recommend?
Aug. 6, 2011 8:38 p.m. dyintorace SuperDork

PhilStubbs wrote:

dyintorace wrote:

PhilStubbs wrote:

I see you are in Gainesville. I am in St. Augustine, this makes me really want to make a trip over there and help. I have tuned tons of hondas with every available software and some gm stuff with tunerpro, but never had the chance to touch megasquirt and always wanted to.

Phil - We would welcome your help! Both MrJoshua and I are newbies when it comes to engine management and having some expertise involved would be a huge help. Could you make it over one day during the week? Or would weekends be better?

Weekends are best. I just have to see how my $2011 build goes. I still have a good bit to do.

Next weekend is out for me, as I'll be out of town, but perhaps the following weekend?
Aug. 6, 2011 8:48 p.m. donalson SuperDork

on WB it depends on what you want to spend... i'm planning for an AEM on ebay with a digital gauge... $170 shipped or so... but thats my take... lots of options... even more if you don't want/need the gauge (I want it as a dummy light)
Aug. 6, 2011 9:00 p.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

dyintorace wrote:

Thanks! MrJoshua did all the hard work...I'm now hoping to piggyback off his effort!

Don't worry, if it does well I will be there to soak up some of the glory.
Aug. 6, 2011 9:35 p.m. dyintorace SuperDork

MrJoshua wrote:

dyintorace wrote:

Thanks! MrJoshua did all the hard work...I'm now hoping to piggyback off his effort!

Don't worry, if it does well I will be there to soak up some of the glory.

That's the plan!
Aug. 6, 2011 9:35 p.m. dyintorace SuperDork

donalson wrote:

on WB it depends on what you want to spend... i'm planning for an AEM on ebay with a digital gauge... $170 shipped or so... but thats my take... lots of options... even more if you don't want/need the gauge (I want it as a dummy light)

Thanks Donalson!
Aug. 7, 2011 6:51 a.m. PhilStubbs New Reader

dyintorace wrote:

PhilStubbs wrote:

dyintorace wrote:

PhilStubbs wrote:

I see you are in Gainesville. I am in St. Augustine, this makes me really want to make a trip over there and help. I have tuned tons of hondas with every available software and some gm stuff with tunerpro, but never had the chance to touch megasquirt and always wanted to.

Phil - We would welcome your help! Both MrJoshua and I are newbies when it comes to engine management and having some expertise involved would be a huge help. Could you make it over one day during the week? Or would weekends be better?

Weekends are best. I just have to see how my $2011 build goes. I still have a good bit to do.

Next weekend is out for me, as I'll be out of town, but perhaps the following weekend?

I'll let you know how it goes. That might work out.

I forgot to add, as far as widebands go, I use the innovate lc1. They have the best all around accuracy and refresh rates. They can be a little finicky at times, but I rarely have issues and when I do, it's nothing a 2min calibration can't fix.
Aug. 7, 2011 7:00 a.m. 92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork

I think like Matt and i briefly talked about in the other thread, the AEM Uego is a little wonky when used with megasquirt.

If you want something similarly easy and similarly priced, get the Innovate MTX-L.
Aug. 7, 2011 8:13 a.m. Taiden HalfDork

If you're just going to use it with Megasquirt, I have a complete 14point7 NAW kit that I would sell you. It is essentially a wideband controller (complete with oxygen sensor) that is extremely light weight and it's sole purpose is to hand off information to a standalone ecu.

I haven't assembled it, which is good or bad depending on who you ask. You can email me if you want.
Aug. 7, 2011 8:37 a.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

Taiden wrote:

If you're just going to use it with Megasquirt, I have a complete 14point7 NAW kit that I would sell you. It is essentially a wideband controller (complete with oxygen sensor) that is extremely light weight and it's sole purpose is to hand off information to a standalone ecu.

I haven't assembled it, which is good or bad depending on who you ask. You can email me if you want.

Dyinto-you should consider this one.
Aug. 7, 2011 8:46 a.m. dean1484 SuperDork

Creepers I should purchase a couple of the SLC OEM EVK kits and solder them up and eBay them.

I actually have a complete JAW lying around. I should re visit it and see if I can replace the plastic housing and the cooling fan with a metal case and heat sink the unit to the case.

For some one that has no soldering skills the OEM SLC Evk it is a great place to start.
Aug. 7, 2011 1:14 p.m. PseudoSport Reader

I ran an LC-1 on my challenge car and never had a problem with it. All I had to do was wire the controler up to power, hook up the 02 sensor wire from MS to the wideband output wire from the controler, calibrate the sensor, and thats pretty much it. There are a bunch of Miata base maps out there to get you started which should already have AFR, fuel, and spark maps close to what you will need so that should take some of the guess work out.

If you look on Ebay you can pick up an LC-1 with sensor for about $140 shipped. Thats what I did. If you need just a sensor most Advance Auto Parts stores have them in stock. Just remember to order it online and use on of there coupons and save about $20.

Another tip is to use the wideband to tune your car then remove it for the challenge. That way you don't have to count it in your budget since its not on the car for the event.
Aug. 7, 2011 1:22 p.m. PseudoSport Reader

oh and if you want a cheap AFR gauge pick up one of those mini LED DC voltage panels on ebay. They run about $5 and with a few easy settings changes in the LC-1 and on the panel it will display your AFR.
Aug. 7, 2011 1:33 p.m. dyintorace SuperDork

Thanks PseudoSport! Once I get the parts pulled together, I would welcome some additional advice/insight. I'm running out of time between now and the Challenge!

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