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infinitenexus
infinitenexus HalfDork
6/2/20 1:39 p.m.

Very proud to read that GRM staff is doing this.  I'm just a casual reader and poster, but now I will subscribe and donate to GRM.  

 

The wife and I were at a peaceful protest here for 6-7 hours last night.  I want to emphasize that it was peaceful, no violence, no looting, just the crowd chanting.  The police responded with mace, flash bangs, and arrests*.  It helped to show exactly why we're protesting in the first place.

 

 

*just want to point out that I am also a supporter of the oxford comma.

TasdevEngineer2of3
TasdevEngineer2of3 New Reader
6/2/20 1:39 p.m.

This thought is for the GRM owners - Tim, Margie, Tom......

It is your business, your magazine and your website. You own it. You can print, say and post as you please - you are the owners. As the owners, you know there will be reactions to what you say. As you know, you may gain and lose customers - readers, supporters, partners and advertisers - as a result of same.

I have admired your magazine and forums unique and almost pure focus on what some might call fun with cars. And as Tim referred to recently in the magazine - a release or escape from the daily grind for a few minutes.

You have set a precedent with your statement above and I am concerned about the way forward given your mission statement.

As an aside, I have read your magazine and website for 15 or so years. I am not an online yacky person so don't post a lot to forums - perhaps I am a sock puppet as perceived by those with higher posting ranks than mine as a New Reader.

Rowdy_Trickle
Rowdy_Trickle New Reader
6/2/20 1:42 p.m.

My favorite thing about automotive journalist these days it that a good chunk of theme are pretty extreme in their political views, which is fine, that is their thing, but they are willing to burn bridges with followers and supporters if they aren't of the same belief. You see it from contributors to Road & Track, GRM, Jalopnik, freelancers, you name it - its fairly common across the board. Just go follow their personal social media accounts and you'll see it happen day-in and day-out.

I love the hypocrisy and double standards of most auto journos these days. They will ostracize someone for having marginally different beliefs than them and not being "progressive" which completely goes against the rhetoric they are spouting in the first place.

It's as if actions have no consequences, clicks go down, and the next thing you know, they are being bought out by some firm that will gut, restructure, and re-sell.

APEowner
APEowner Dork
6/2/20 1:45 p.m.
kgobey said:

In reply to Staff of Motorsport Marketing, Inc. :

I support this in every possible way. I stand with you. 

I've written and rewritten several replies to this thread and may come back and take another crack at it but the most important part of each of them was this and I don't want to not say it because I couldn't figure out how to word everything else.

I support this in every possible way. I stand with you. 

 

Snowdoggie
Snowdoggie Reader
6/2/20 1:45 p.m.
z31maniac said:
KyAllroad (Jeremy) (Forum Supporter) said:
z31maniac said:
Nicole Suddard said:

In reply to z31maniac :

It's an AP Style Guide thing. 

I know, I have a BA in Journalism. I was just trying to inject a bit of levity in the midst of all the rancor. 

 

A BA in journalism??  Jeebus, why not just get the 18th century french lesbian literature degree if you wanted to squander your time and effort learning something.......

(my brother got a degree in journalism, we all mock him mercilessly for it)  (Insert Nelson Munch meme of "haha your industry is dying.")

I originally wanted to go into radio, since my specialization is Public Relations,  I've got the perfect face for it. :)

But realizing I could make more as a clerk at a gas station changed that. That's why I was a claim rep for State Farm right out of college, then went into Tech Writing. 

I'd love if I could get a job doing something for the OKC Thunder, for example. But I couldn't afford an entry-level salary. 

I remember taking Journalism 1A in college MANY years ago. The rule for publishing in the school paper was that you verify everything with three first hand sources before you publish. How many guys with "news websites" follow that rule today? In fact, how many guys with "news websites" have even taken a journalism class in high school or college. Yes, Alex Jones, I am looking at you. 

No wonder that industry is dying. 

STM317
STM317 UltraDork
6/2/20 1:50 p.m.
Maniac0301 said:

About a decade ago I had my world rocked when I was given "the talk" that a black friend gave to his 10 year old son about working with law enforcement. It was not in response to current events things were relatively quiet in the early 2010s. it was just me and him talking as friends and parents. He explained the need and why he felt that it was best for his son to not stand up for his rights when being confronted, the risks were too great.

I was taught to stand up for my rights to respectfully ask questions and I am entitled to certain answers. This is not the lived experience of black America. This talk is not an uncommon thing it is incredibly widespread and it is a survival tactic. We should not consider ourselves a free country when a sizable portion of the US has to tell their middle schoolers how best not to get shot by law enforcement.

When the talk was explained to me I was incredibly incredulous and figured he just had heard a couple bad stories and was being overprotective like most parents do. As the years went on I learned more and more why it was needed and how common it is. I'm fairly open minded but even so I did not like my world being moved that much in one conversation and I rejected his and generations of his families lived experience. I was wrong to do so.

I'm always surprised when I hear people that didn't get a similar talk at some point from their parents, regardless of their skin color. I don't know for sure that the talk I got was the same as the talk that your friend gave his kids, but I'd imagine there are some similarities.

When I was a very white, clean cut, 15 year old honor student, my whiter than white mother sat me down and had a talk about interacting with police, specifically during a traffic stop. It went something like "If you ever get pulled over, (or have other interaction with the police) try to understand that the officer is likely on edge a little just interacting with you. They're trained to be suspicious and capable of deadly force, so don't do anything that might raise suspicion or set off alarms like sudden movements. Don't give them a reason to be suspicious or escalate the situation. Do what you can to lower their tension level with the following:

If possible, get to a spot that's safe for both you and the officer.

Have your license and papers ready by the time the officer approaches.

If it's dark, turn your dome light on.

Keep your hands on the wheel at all times.

Answer any questions politely and directly.

If you have to remove your hands from the wheel to reach for anything, explain what you're doing to the officer first and let him give you permission.

Try to speak clearly and calmly.

Do your best to remain calm and avoid escalation or confrontation."

Is this not a common type of discussion between parents and kids/teenagers? We lived in a safe, working class suburb and I feel like I still got "the Talk" or at least a version of it.

 

 

 

ALAN HENDERSON
ALAN HENDERSON
6/2/20 1:55 p.m.

Rather than focusing on Motorsports you have chosen to virtue signal. The SPLC is a far left organization and you have alienated many of your readers by choosing a side. If you want to contribute your own money to them fine, but bringing the magazine into the issue is foolish.

 

GRM is my favorite magazine, but I won't renew my subscription. I have no intention of funding something like the SPLC, either directly or indirectly. Asking for donations to keep the magazine afloat and then turning around and giving it away to another organization which has nothing to do with motorsports is deceitful and duplicitous. 

Brett_Murphy (Forum Patrón)
Brett_Murphy (Forum Patrón) MegaDork
6/2/20 1:56 p.m.
sergio said:
Nicole Suddard said:

In reply to z31maniac :

It's an AP Style Guide thing. 

Oh no. Are we going to go down that rabbit hole? :)

People feel very strongly about the Oxford comma, and no argument is going to sway their beliefs on the subject.

 

ProDarwin
ProDarwin UltimaDork
6/2/20 1:58 p.m.
Brett_Murphy (Forum Patrón) said:
sergio said:
Nicole Suddard said:

In reply to z31maniac :

It's an AP Style Guide thing. 

Oh no. Are we going to go down that rabbit hole? :)

People feel very strongly about the Oxford comma, and no argument is going to sway their beliefs on the subject.

 

This is 2020, punctuation is political.

Snowdoggie
Snowdoggie Reader
6/2/20 1:59 p.m.
ALAN HENDERSON said:

Rather than focusing on Motorsports you have chosen to virtue signal. The SPLC is a far left organization and you have alienated many of your readers by choosing a side. If you want to contribute your own money to them fine, but bringing the magazine into the issue is foolish.

 

GRM is my favorite magazine, but I won't renew my subscription. I have no intention of funding something like the SPLC, either directly or indirectly. Asking for donations to keep the magazine afloat and then turning around and giving it away to another organization which has nothing to do with motorsports is deceitful and duplicitous. 

Hello sockpuppet. You have been a member since June 2, 2020. You have posted exactly one time in this forum.  

Tell your friend "datsunroadster" that the car in his garage is actually a Volga roadster. 

steronz
steronz Reader
6/2/20 1:59 p.m.

The white nationalists who are now running a not-insubstantial part of the Republican Party have done with the SPLC what the right does with lots of things now -- declared it to be bad without evidence and repeated it so much people just accepted it.  The media is bad because it is, unbiased 3rd-party fact-checkers are untrustworthy because they are, the ACLU is anti-American because it is, science is a scam because it is, the SPLC is a hate group because... it is.  Repeat repeat repeat until people just accept it without question.  Wonderful.

 

Keep fighting the good fight, Suddards.

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
6/2/20 2:01 p.m.

In reply to STM317 :

Ask someone who's black what was in their talk. Compare and contrast. 

See also: What "talk" does a senior boy get before prom and how is it different from the "talk" a senior girl gets?

ALAN HENDERSON
ALAN HENDERSON New Reader
6/2/20 2:02 p.m.

"Hello sockpuppet. You have posted exactly one time in this forum.   "

 

 

Because it's the only time I felt the need to.

I think what happened to Floyd was terrible, and what happens to black people everyday in this country is deplorable, but I don't want my favorite magazine and hobby polluted with social issues. It's stupid and does not help the issue.

KyAllroad (Jeremy) (Forum Supporter)
KyAllroad (Jeremy) (Forum Supporter) UltimaDork
6/2/20 2:07 p.m.

In reply to ALAN HENDERSON :

Pay attention to what I said, the country is in a crisis and you need to pick a side.  Being apolitical is a tacit approval of the status quo and that has gone on for too long.

 

RALLYRS
RALLYRS New Reader
6/2/20 2:08 p.m.
slowbird said:

In reply to RALLYRS :

Andy Ngo is a heavily biased "buddy" to violent right-wing groups that attacked protesters in Portland.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/andy-ngo-right-wing-troll-antifa-877914/

White supremacists love Tucker Carlson too.

And that's it. I'm done with this thread. Fox News is not your friend and they frequently aren't truthful.

Yes, Of course Andy is a Card carrying Goose stepping Asian Nazi White Supremacist.

Laughable.

And of course all Tucker/FOX(I know!-Faux) News viewers are all KKK members just watching until their next Klan meeting. Just like all CNN and MSNBC watchers are card carrying Communists. Of course.

Quite predictably you came back with zero substance to add-just attacking Fox News.

And no mention of the liberal links I posted. I also  posted some liberal links calling out Antifa too,because I knew exactly what your response would be. But of course,crickets.. concerning Vox and R.S.

So you support Andy's beating? Got what he had coming to him for filming"protestors"? If you do-again-good to know what type of person you are.

Especially since in my post- I denounced violence from either side. Antifa scumbags,just like like neo Nazis and racists on the other side-don't get a pass to physically attack people just for disagreeing with them.

Period.

Eff Antifa and anyone who supports them-directly or indirectly.

 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
6/2/20 2:09 p.m.
Snowdoggie said:
z31maniac said:

I originally wanted to go into radio, since my specialization is Public Relations,  I've got the perfect face for it. :)

But realizing I could make more as a clerk at a gas station changed that. That's why I was a claim rep for State Farm right out of college, then went into Tech Writing. 

I'd love if I could get a job doing something for the OKC Thunder, for example. But I couldn't afford an entry-level salary. 

I remember taking Journalism 1A in college MANY years ago. The rule for publishing in the school paper was that you verify everything with three first hand sources before you publish. How many guys with "news websites" follow that rule today? In fact, how many guys with "news websites" have even taken a journalism class in high school or college. Yes, Alex Jones, I am looking at you. 

No wonder that industry is dying. 

That's part of it. The other half is the internet. Publications started putting up stories available online, that were still subsidized by print subscriptions, so people got used to getting the info for free.........without having to have a subscription or pick up the Sunday paper at the gas station. Then people came to expect getting the news for free and didn't feel like it was worth paying for it. So they quit subscribing. 

Not to mention the astonishingly low pay. 

When I graduated college in Dec '05, a starting position at the Tulsa World was $24k per year. Basically $11.50/hour for a 40 hour week, which journalists work much more than that. 

So I became a claim rep for State Farm with starting pay close to $40k per year in the spring of '06. 

 

You don't attract the top of the talent pool with low pay and poor benefits. 

 

ALAN HENDERSON
ALAN HENDERSON New Reader
6/2/20 2:13 p.m.

In reply to KyAllroad (Jeremy) (Forum Supporter) :

I have chosen a side. That's not the point. Bringing it up to be a point of contention in a magazine supposedly about motorsports is divisive and unnecessary. It does not help the situation, It drives away people who might not agree with the editorial viewpoint. If you don't want me around because I don't agree with you then I don't want to be here.

Floating Doc (Forum Supporter)
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
6/2/20 2:14 p.m.
ALAN HENDERSON said:

"Hello sockpuppet. You have posted exactly one time in this forum.   "

 

 

Because it's the only time I felt the need to.

I think what happened to Floyd was terrible, and what happens to black people everyday in this country is deplorable, but I don't want my favorite magazine and hobby polluted with social issues. It's stupid and does not help the issue.

It's easy to do nothing when you have nothing at stake.

As for opposing murder as "virtue signalling." Really? In all of this, that's what makes you mad?

You've said your piece. Bye.

LarsBrunkhorst
LarsBrunkhorst New Reader
6/2/20 2:15 p.m.

While I don't post much I have been a dedicated reader of the site for the last couple years, this was the last thing I expected to see on a site that has done a great job of staying on topic over the last couple years.

Being younger than most on this board probably gives me a different perspective but there were three things I felt reading all of these replies;

1. Tom, Margie and more people than I would have guessed are not only looking forward to a brighter future, but also doing something about it, and as a younger individual that brings me great joy. Unfortunately no good deed goes unpunished, and people will find issue with anything.

2. Boomers gonna boom.

3. Some of the veiled language and implied ideas being put forth by some posters have no place at ANY car race/event/show/gathering etc. I can tell you that unless the average age is above 50 you will never hear anything of the sort. (also see #2)

Maybe I'm painting with a broad stroke but what do I know? I'll be in the corner enjoying my tide pod smoothie...

 

P.S. You gained a subscriber for life!

penultimeta
penultimeta HalfDork
6/2/20 2:16 p.m.

Archbishop Desmond Tutu said "Those who stay neutral in situations of injustice have chosen the side of the oppressor" and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. said that "There comes a time when silence is betrayal". Thank you GRM staff for speaking out and choosing the side of humanity.  

ALAN HENDERSON
ALAN HENDERSON New Reader
6/2/20 2:17 p.m.

In reply to Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) :

What makes you think I am not opposed to murder? Of course I am.  What makes me mad is everything nowadays has to be politicized. It ruins everything, including my favorite hobby.

RALLYRS
RALLYRS New Reader
6/2/20 2:18 p.m.
MrFancypants said:
RALLYRS said:

So Antifa is just "people standing up to white supremacist wackos, are they?

Tell that to Journalist Andy Ngo. Some of your nice "Anti Facist"(yeah right!)buddies put him in the hospital for the crime of being a conservative and filming them with a go pro. And he is obviously not even White.

 

If you are speaking out against ANTIFA, then you are FA.

Andy Ngo isn't a journalist.  He's a fascist who makes a living out of twisting reality and posting lies on the internet.  He's constantly posting pictures and videos of violence on Twitter and labelling it "ANTIFA" even when it clearly is not that.

 

 

Well,I don't know what "FA" is,but I'll go out on a limb and guess it's a facist American.

Right,speaking out against people who dress up in black, load up their backpack with weapons, and go out to physically attack people who disagree with them,especially white people..well that's a bad thing.

Just let them bust heads! Just like the Nazi's on the other side do!  Logic Fail.  Violence on either side is bad and Antifa are thugs who deserve what they get coming back to them period.

And if you are one of them you deserve what you get too. Again I condemn the violence on both sides. The leftist side DOES NOT get a pass here-PERIOD.

Snowdoggie
Snowdoggie Reader
6/2/20 2:19 p.m.

So many sockpuppets showing up here. Something fishy is going on. 

Snowdoggie
Snowdoggie Reader
6/2/20 2:20 p.m.
RALLYRS said:
MrFancypants said:
RALLYRS said:

So Antifa is just "people standing up to white supremacist wackos, are they?

Tell that to Journalist Andy Ngo. Some of your nice "Anti Facist"(yeah right!)buddies put him in the hospital for the crime of being a conservative and filming them with a go pro. And he is obviously not even White.

 

If you are speaking out against ANTIFA, then you are FA.

Andy Ngo isn't a journalist.  He's a fascist who makes a living out of twisting reality and posting lies on the internet.  He's constantly posting pictures and videos of violence on Twitter and labelling it "ANTIFA" even when it clearly is not that.

 

 

Well,I don't know what "FA" is,but I'll go out on a limb and guess it's a facist American.

Right,speaking out against people who dress up in black, load up their backpack with weapons, and go out to physically attack people who disagree with them,especially white people..well that's a bad thing.

Just let them bust heads! Just like the Nazi's on the other side do!  Logic Fail.  Violence on either side is bad and Antifa are thugs who deserve what they get coming back to them period.

And if you are one of them you deserve what you get too. Again I condemn the violence on both sides. The leftist side DOES NOT get a pass here-PERIOD.

What about sockpuppets. Do they get a pass? 

Steve_Jones
Steve_Jones Reader
6/2/20 2:25 p.m.

I am on time out, so I am not supposed to post.  If posting this gets me banned, I'm ok with that as I think it is worth posting.  I got an email from 23and me (no idea why) and think it is one of the best corporate "messages" (for lack of a better term) I have seen recently, and well worth a read.

 

 

For those in the black community, we know you carry an extra burden right now and 23andMe stands in solidarity with you.

Our company is based on the foundation that all of us are linked by a shared thread - DNA - that we are genetically 99.5% the same. We share so much in common, yet black and brown skin means you will disproportionately experience injustices and prejudice that can put lives on completely different trajectories.

I feel awful and overwhelmed by the events going on. Hashtag after hashtag, there is little meaningful change. How can we break the cycle? The world is filled with people who, I believe, genuinely want to create an equitable society but are unsure how to take the first step to make that happen. We all have habits we need to break, biases we need to actively fight and silence we need to end.

As a leader who really cares, I feel the responsibility to not just talk about Diversity, Equity and Inclusion, but to make meaningful changes and contributions through my own actions and how we operate at 23andMe. Our management team, Board and employee base must have greater diversity. I am ashamed to say I do not have a single black employee who is at Director level or above. Our product is euro-centric but must expand to be inclusive and equitable. We absolutely have the potential to be better. Despite our efforts, I have to honestly say that we are also part of the problem.

I'm holding myself accountable. I'm holding 23andMe accountable. And I'm asking that our customers hold us accountable. This will include making sure that we change our hiring practices, that we make sure we give greater promotional opportunities within the company, that we dedicate resources to evolve our product to better represent all communities and that my management team and Board have more inclusive representation.

George Floyd and many others in the black community died an unjust and tragic death. I send my deepest sympathy to the families, friends and communities that are grieving. We regrettably cannot change the past but I can certainly learn from this and will do everything I can to be part of changing the future

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