Statement on George Floyd

In reply to RALLYRS :

Andy Ngo is a heavily biased "buddy" to violent right-wing groups that attacked protesters in Portland.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/andy-ngo-right-wing-troll-antifa-877914/

White supremacists love Tucker Carlson too.

And that's it. I'm done with this thread. Fox News is not your friend and they frequently aren't truthful.

Just leaving this here on my way out so people can know

I don't remember when I've seen so many "brand new accounts" in one thread. Pretty impressive. I'm sure each one is a new person to the forum too...

In reply to thatsnowinnebago (Forum Supporter) :

This is all really amazing. I'm still in awe at the guts of GRM to be open and transparent, damn the torpedoes. If you can't respect that..... Come on.

If silence is consent, then I have to say this.

I am disappointed in the decision to donate to SPLC.  

"We stand against racism. We stand against violence. We stand for inclusion. We stand for a free press. We stand for speaking out, together."  In my opinion, SPLC does not consistently support those stands and often works against them.

It's not a dealbreaker:  I love this forum and have no plans to stop my frequent visits and occasional posts.  We're still friends.

Thank you.  

So I leave last night asking for the SLPC bashers for an alternative place to donate money.

No suggestions.  

For all of the bashing and vitriol agains them, one would expect that you would have a place to do *something* to stop this endemic violence and racism.  But instead all people can do is bash the SLPC.

Please, if you are going to bash GRM for giving to them, at least provide an alternative that you think is really better at ending racism.  

I am quite open to your suggestions.  What other organization is out there fighting this injustice?  If there is nobody else, then the SLPC is it.

Tom Suddard said:

We talked to the mods before posting this, and decided to moderate with a very light hand for a bit to give room for discussion.

Many of you over the last few years gotten emails from me with the "I will always defend your right to curse, but will also yell at you for cursing in church" as an analogy for how I moderate. I believe that a huge diversity of opinions and political thoughts are necessary and that we should think about them and discuss them and hold them dear and defend them. Just not here. Here we are united by our love of cars and the automotive hobby and that transcends a whole bunch of things that might otherwise tear us apart. 

I'm not sending out those emails now, and I won't for a while, but I want to. 

alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:

So I leave last night asking for the SLPC bashers for an alternative place to donate money.

No suggestions.  

For all of the bashing and vitriol agains them, one would expect that you would have a place to do *something* to stop this endemic violence and racism.  But instead all people can do is bash the SLPC.

Please, if you are going to bash GRM for giving to them, at least provide an alternative that you think is really better at ending racism.  

I am quite open to your suggestions.  What other organization is out there fighting this injustice?  If there is nobody else, then the SLPC is it.

Eric,

I think, as a reasonable person, you can easily see how this thread has devolved. In a large way it has devolved through snark on both sides. Someone did suggest an alternative charity, but I can't wade through the much to find it just now. I believe it was the King Foundation. I don't know much about them personally. You are better than to add to the snark though. As for my suggestion, I'd suggest fighting qualified immunity, which would go a long way to end police brutality: https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/05/30/police-george-floyd-qualified-immunity-supreme-court-column/5283349002/

Everyone else:

I'll just restate what I said on pg 1, although I truly don't think everyone cares. We'd rather quote and requote the most absurd things back and forth instead of having a real discussion. I believe the SLPC to be roughly analogous to the Westboro Baptist Church (albeit not nearly as bad! Note I did not say 'equal') in that you can't even pronounce the name of the organization without lying (Not baptists, not a church. Not southern, not about poverty, not about the law). They are both hate mongers. I don't deal in hate. I don't have the time, nor do I think anyone would really parse through it all, to point out various wonderful organizations which SLPC has labeled a hate group, and the devastation that causes. There have been a few dozen comments about "taking the ball and going home" which doesn't really work as an analogy. As for me, the only person I can speak for, indeed I stopped supporting the forum monetarily. As someone else suggested, I can't hold every business I deal with to a perfect standard. I buy stuff from Amazon when I have to even though those guys are jerks. I am extremely careful who I donate to, though. I give away thousands, but carefully. Despite snark about how little my dollars really changed anything, it's symbolic and important to me.

What has happened here is obviously divisive, and I can only assume intentionally so. That makes me sad.

In reply to tuna55 :

So I just went to the whole thread so far, and found two things.

One suggestion to go read an article about alternatives.  And another asking why they didn't find something local.

I didn't see any single suggestions other than that.

Snarky or not, it's a real question to the people who are so upset with the donation.  You are the first one to suggest a specific location- The King Foundation.  And if you google search "The King Foundation"- that's not Martin Luther King, it's Carl King.  The King Center is from the Martin Luther King family.

It's fascinating to me that so many have done so much working and research on something they really think is the wrong thing, but have not spent time finding the right thing.  It really is interesting.  Find that snarky or not.

The suggestion I would have would be clearly political, given it's named after a politician- so I won't post that.

alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to tuna55 :

So I just went to the whole thread so far, and found two things.

One suggestion to go read an article about alternatives.  And another asking why they didn't find something local.

I didn't see any single suggestions other than that.

Snarky or not, it's a real question to the people who are so upset with the donation.  You are the first one to suggest a specific location- The King Foundation.  And if you google search "The King Foundation"- that's not Martin Luther King, it's Carl King.  The King Center is from the Martin Luther King family.

It's fascinating to me that so many have done so much working and research on something they really think is the wrong thing, but have not spent time finding the right thing.  It really is interesting.  Find that snarky or not.

The suggestion I would have would be clearly political, given it's named after a politician- so I won't post that.

No no, I wasn't making that suggestion. Gah, you're going to make me find it, aren't you? I have to read seven pages of drivel just to show you. OK, hang on.

Coz said:

Your statement doesn't actually say anything directly about George Floyd.  I guess it's implied.  As such I agree that what happened to Mr. Floyd is horrific.

Almost everyone assumes it was racial.  And there is pretty good chance it was.  Or it could have been an bad cop that would have done that to anyone.  In any case, he should not have been a police officer.

Of all the organizations you could have donated to, the SPLC is probably the worst.  It would have been better to donate to an organization such as the King Center.

 

 

In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :

There, it was coz, and he said the King Center. I misremembered the name, and didn't want to filter through the mess to find it. But I did. Just for you. Because you seem like a good dude. No snark.

I'm not really a big supporter or a hater of SLPC. All I know is what I read about them. I know the guy who used to run the place was fired for sexual harrassment. I also see a lot of articles about them that read like tin foil hat conspiracy theories. They list both white supremacist organizations and black separatist organizations as hate groups. Charity Navigator gives them a high score, but not the highest score, on accountability and transparency. 

You would think from the reaction of some of the people around here that money was donated to the Church of Satan. 

People here keep saying that the SLPC isn't Southern. Their address is Montgomery, Alabama. That ain't exactly north of Fairbanks. 

People here keep saying that the SLPC isn't Southern. Their address is Montgomery, Alabama. That ain't exactly north of Fairbanks. 

Hey Snowdoggie, I may be the only person to have said that. It was originally conceived as a way to help southern African Americans against KKK style organizations. It isn't that anymore. It is indeed, as you stated, still headquartered in the south.

In reply to Subscriber-unavailabile :

I've thought a lot about my out-of-bounds reply to you, and have decided that I need to do what our mods would tell me to do if they saw that post, and take a step away from the board for a cooling off period. 

And yes, what we posted was obviously divisive. Not intentionally so, though we knew there was a possibility there would be blowback. The charitable donation was something we felt was necessary to give meaning to our words--and to help fight the problem. We're not in a position to give away bunches of money or run off loads of readers; we are in a position to speak and be heard, though. So there it is.

We are heartened by the support we've seen, but saddened that a message of love, support and unity has provoked so much anger.

Margie

Marjorie Suddard said:

In reply to Subscriber-unavailabile :

I've thought a lot about my out-of-bounds reply to you, and have decided that I need to do what our mods would tell me to do if they saw that post, and take a step away from the board for a cooling off period. 

And yes, what we posted was obviously divisive. Not intentionally so, though we knew there was a possibility there would be blowback. The charitable donation was something we felt was necessary to give meaning to our words--and to help fight the problem. We're not in a position to give away bunches of money or run off loads of readers; we are in a position to speak and be heard, though. So there it is.

We are heartened by the support we've seen, but saddened that a message of love, support and unity has provoked so much anger.

Margie

Just a note. I have always understood our value systems to be wildly different, and that's fine, we can still be friends. But "Die in a fire"? That was you? That's as hate filled as it gets. I'm not sure I can be friends with so much hate.

Then you simultaneously called your statement divisive and also a statement of unity. It cannot be both.

In reply to tuna55 :

"datsunroadster", whoever he is, also said that he is Southern and the SPLC is not. 

And the SPLC listed twice as many hate groups in California than in the states of Texas, Georgia, Alabama and South Carolina. 

Who knew? 

Without reading the whole seven page thread, I applaud you and thank you GRM.  I will continue supporting you as long as I'm able.  You are truly family.

Snowdoggie said:

In reply to tuna55 :

They also listed twice as many hate groups in California than in the states of Texas, Georgia, Alabama and South Carolina. 

Who knew? 

 

I really don't see how that matters. I am making the claim that it's a charity that really is a lobbyist group, and that one thing they have done which I find disturbing is fraudulently label great organizations as hate groups, and since they call themselves the authority, lots of money stops going to good places because of their label. As I said, it would be analagous to calling the NRA or the Westboro Baptist Church a charity.

In reply to tuna55 :

I honestly don't know all of the organizations on their list. I do remember seeing the Denver Black Panthers and a Klan group in East Texas near a town I am familiar with. The National Review article mentioned churches. 

I find the most attractive qualities in a person (or organization) are conviction, guts, and humility.  In my opinion, the magazine's statement and follow-up comments show an abundance of all of these.  I respect the hell out of you guys for the willingness to risk subscribers to make your statement.  I think this part, "... because silence equals complicity" is incredibly important.  Thank you for your words.  Keep up the good work.

 

All lives matter , 

They do.  However, this week is all about the black ones because that needs the attention.  Just because people yell "Save the whales!" this week  doesn't mean "berkeley the dolphins!"

Marjorie Suddard said:

We are heartened by the support we've seen, but saddened that a message of love, support and unity has provoked so much anger.

Margie, what I'm seeing is overwhelming agreement with the message. The only issue some folks have is with where you elected to put your money. I don't know anything about the SPLC, but it's clear a lot of people have a big problem with them. Maybe a simple statement like "Next time we'll do more research into which charity we choose" or something like that would help to smooth things over a bit?

Thanks for standing up for what you believe in. It's easy to stay silent and it takes conviction to make a bold statement. Thank you for speaking out for what's right