ProDarwin said:
I haven't seen one, but anything that large would be absolutely miserable in any slalom.
I dunno about that. In some of the faster slaloms we've had, I've seen higher top speeds in the Jeep than most of the fast guys in Subarus. It's got enough wheelbase and track width to be stable in the slaloms while leaning on the power and accelerating all the way through it, while the Subaru guys either struggle with lack of power or can't keep the tail in under power, depending on the car. It's the tight, technical sections where the big, heavy vehicles suck and lose tons of time. It turns into trying to use a sledgehammer as a needle...
In reply to Kreb :
Basically, no truck will be competitive in any class, except perhaps a seriously-built prerunner/bro-lite toyota or a compact pickup modded appropriately (i.e. Mighty Max, Ranger, etc).
I expect you're right, but it looks as though they can still be good fun and not terribly slow either - an I've already got it in my driveway.
Hmmmmmmmm, Prairie City you say? That appears to be closer than Crow's Landing. I didn't realize that there was rallycross within a reasonable distance.
Kreb said:
I expect you're right, but it looks as though they can still be good fun and not terribly slow either - an I've already got it in my driveway.
This is correct. And how well you place will vary a lot based on the course design and surface that day. One day you'll be in the top third of the field with the fast guys, the next event you'll be almost dead last and lose to a Prius (yes, that has happened).
I'm gonna go off the deep end. Chevy Cavalier. It's a crap car, unless your get a later model with the 2.4 engine, then it has some grunt. Pull the fuse to nuke the ABS, throw a drop in air filter in it, get the KYB stock replacement suspension kit, KYB did something funky with it, and it results in the car being stiffened up and lifted by an inch. Throw the meatiest snow tires you can find, weld an eBay Catback on, and go win Stock FWD. Bring it home and wash it, then race it again. Extra points if you do a rattle can paint job, since the GM paint has turned into dust by this point
Just curious: In the 2wd classes, how do rear or mid-engined cars stack up vs front-wheel-drive? I imagine someone will bring a Porsche or mister two to the track once in a while.
In reply to Kreb :
I mean mr2's are really popular in RWD and MR was won by a 1973 beetle this year.
In reply to Kreb :
They are great but there aren't many options for mid/rear cars so you don't see them very often. One concern for stock and prepared classes is that you aren't allowed to make snorkels for the air filter. I have heard stories of having to knock the dust out of the intake after every run.
Kreb said:
Just curious: In the 2wd classes, how do rear or mid-engined cars stack up vs front-wheel-drive? I imagine someone will bring a Porsche or mister two to the track once in a while.
Different classes, doesn't matter.
In reply to Kreb :
FWD and RWD are different classes in rallycross (unlike stage rally).
Cars with good even or rear-biased weight balance do well. Mine is close to 50-50 (e30). Vaughn Micchie's POrsche 924 that beat me at the East Coast Championships last year is probably 54% rear. MR2's generally do well when they don't break. Things with massive front weight bias tend to not do very well. All that said, the rear-biased cars tend to do proportionally better the slicker the course is. On a dry course or hardpack, the results are not necessarily the same.
In reply to irish44j :
Huh. I never did the math. Teh RX-7 is 48/52 until I sit myself in the car.
Driver is a lot more important than anything as long as the vehicle is not actually scrody.
In reply to Knurled. :
When I talk about comparing cars I am assuming that driver abilities are equal. Otherwise the answer to this thread would be "just be the best driver" lol
rslifkin said:
ProDarwin said:
I haven't seen one, but anything that large would be absolutely miserable in any slalom.
I dunno about that. In some of the faster slaloms we've had, I've seen higher top speeds in the Jeep than most of the fast guys in Subarus. It's got enough wheelbase and track width to be stable in the slaloms while leaning on the power and accelerating all the way through it, while the Subaru guys either struggle with lack of power or can't keep the tail in under power, depending on the car. It's the tight, technical sections where the big, heavy vehicles suck and lose tons of time. It turns into trying to use a sledgehammer as a needle...
Unless your slaloms are super open, both wheelbase and track width (overall width) are your enemy. You may just be a better driver than those guys.
In reply to ProDarwin :
I've noticed that it is easy for a lot of drivers to screw up a slalom. They look at the first corner, not the whole set of corners, and end up overcooking the first one, which throws you off for the whole set.
Funny. I used to absolutely suck at slaloms. But they did teach me to look at the next two or three corners and not just the one you're entering - corner entry for the next corner starts with how you aim at the current one.
In reply to ProDarwin :
I wouldn't say I'm a better driver than our fast guys by any means. A few of them are the type that would probably be at the pointy end of the field while driving a potato and in their normal cars, if they're below 3rd place, it's probably because they missed runs due to a mechanical issue.
Generally our slaloms are open enough that the Jeep fits through fine. The fast way through them is to not over-turn and be able to just make smooth, slight steering inputs and just barely avoid shaving the cones with the tires. The challenge is to do that without losing the rear end at speed, clipping a cone or screwing it up at the braking point (we've had plenty of slaloms with a 180 and back through it at the end). It seems like most of the FWD guys are power-limited and can only accelerate so much through the slalom. RWD and a lot of the AWD guys are limited in how much they can put down before throwing the tail out. The Jeep with no center diff (locked center) is just very planted in a slalom on dirt, as it wants to understeer a bit so you can just lean on the throttle and steer just enough to clear the cones, but it will rotate happily if you lift a little (and the rear end sticks as soon as you're back on the power).
I over-cooked one of the slaloms badly once. Let the Jeep into 2nd gear because the course was getting pretty grippy, so I no longer had the 55 mph rev limiter speed reminder that 1st gear provides. I stayed in it too late into the slalom and sent it very sideways on braking. Took out the turnaround cone (one of those tall ones with the weighted base) so badly it landed a good 20 - 30 feet from where it started. I'm not really sure how fast I was going when I grabbed the brakes, but I'd say probably 65-ish. We made the slaloms a bit shorter on the grippy days after that one...
Here's video from the day of my screw-up. Start around 17:40 to see the over-done slalom.
Perfect Rallycross car?
Well the E36 M3 of course! Actually I'm not sure if it's the ideal Rallycross car--- but I bet it's a hoot in the dirt!
This is George Hammerbeck's car--- pics were taken at Sebring this past weekend, and he was nice enough to send them.
'95 M3 is my desired tool of choice for SR. It's the only year they had square wheels.
Probably a 325/328i would be just as fast, but... M3!
You are allowed to go plus or minus one inch in diameter in Stock, now, but width isn't allowed to be changed, so the desirability of the '95 still stands.
In reply to Joe Gearin :
Just to counterpoint you: Nick Drymalski (who is on here), won the highly competitive DC region's MR class 3 years ago in an e28 BMW (and I think he was second or third the year after that). So we KNOW he can drive (he also did well in a few divisional events in that car and in my e30). For the past two years he's been building an e36 M3, complete with JVAB suspension and lots of upgrades underneath. I don't think he's managed a top-5 finish in a single event in that car yet.
Small sample size, so definitely not saying that the e36 m3 isn't a great car for rallycross, but in our local example with a known top-notch driver, it hasn't been the case. I think it also depends a LOT on the kind of course, of course. I fully intend to do an event in that car this year myself (Nick owes me for driving my car several times, and his has A/C so I'll pick a mid-summer event haha). I want to see how a car with twice my power and somewhat more weight does with my driving style for future reference.
