There is a guy at work who swears by race gas. I've heard about how adding octane booster to your gas can leave your engine with a lot of carbon build up and messed up intake valves. I'm wondering what drawbacks accompany race gas, and if they are similar to octane booster's.
Race gas in what exactly? If the motor isn't built or designed for the high octane rating that comes with "race gas" then you're going to do more harm than good. Also, octane booster is a gimmick and will not turn 87 into C16.
In reply to red5_02:
For my uses, it'd be in a 2ZZ Toyota Celica. It takes premium, but i heard Race Gas is 110 Octane. It sounded trepidatiously volatile.
Race gas is awesome.
In race motors.
EdenPrime wrote: In reply to red5_02: For my uses, it'd be in a 2ZZ Toyota Celica. It takes premium, but i heard Race Gas is 110 Octane. It sounded trepidatiously volatile.
What standalone do you have installed in your car to take advantage of the added octane?
In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:
Nothing. I'm barely aware of what a standalone is. I presume that'd be like a Apexi Power FC(?)
EdenPrime wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: . . .nothing. I'm barely aware of what a standalone is. I presume that'd be like a Apexi Power FC(?)
That's a piggyback.
That said, it's one that works impressively well on the 2zz.
Judging from your response, don't bother with the race gas. 
In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:
Mmkay. Eventually i plan to have the car Turbo'd and making somewhere in the 250-280hp range, but until then it'll be lightened, and with a few simple mods like I/H/E, and suspension upgrades. It'll be used for HPDE, not competition against other drivers. And as we're on the topic, admittedly-- i don't know much about all these computers and whatnot cars nowadays require.
110 octane race gas is probably leaded -- not something you'd want to use in a car with cats.
100 octane unleaded race gas exists, and is even street legal in many places (you can buy it at some gas stations, coming out of the same pumps as street gas, even here in California). 100 octane unleaded isn't going to hurt your engine, just your wallet (it runs around $9/gallon).
There are a few unmodified street cars that will benefit from an octane boost over the 91 that's the highest normal octane available here, but they're typically turbocharged. I doubt it'll do much in a mostly-stock Toyota engine.
EdenPrime wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: Mmkay. Eventually i plan to have the car Turbo'd and making somewhere in the 250-280hp range, but until then it'll be lightened, and with a few simple mods like I/H/E, and suspension upgrades. It'll be used for HPDE, not competition against other drivers. And as we're on the topic, admittedly-- i don't know much about all these computers and whatnot cars nowadays require.
I don't even know that i'd turbo a 2zz for those power goals. Either way, race gas not necessary for those numbers.
In reply to codrus:
Thank you for your contribution. I guess i should feel a little lucky since i have 93 Premium at my local BP.
@92Celica, what would you do for my goal?
EdenPrime wrote: In reply to codrus: Thank you for your contribution. I guess i should feel a little lucky since i have 93 Premium at my local BP. @92Celica, what would you do for my goal?
Either supercharge or just a basic N/A build.
Intake manifold, intake, header, exhaust, and a good tune seems to get those cars in the 220-230whp range. That's getting a car that light with that gearing DAMN FAST.
Why race gas?
Because Racecar!
Otherwise it's overkill. It does make the car's exhaust smell better, IMHO.
Cliff notes. You'll need some sort of modification to the computer of your car to take full advantage. Not worth the additional expense in your cars current state.
In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:
That sounds much cheaper as well-- the turbo kit with upgrades such as heat powder coating is around $5,500. My optimum goal was a PTWR of 10. I think i can get the car to around 2,100-2,200lbs. I'm at around 2,400lbs right now. I have a K&N Short Ram intake with a custom cold air intake duct, DC Header (came with the car, i heat wrapped them), and i will be getting my exhaust done when i get a full-time job.
But now for the part which may make you cringe-- it's the Auto-Manual. I get a lot of flack about that-- but honestly, on the Celica forum, my decision is mostly reinforced when i read all the threads of people misshifting (due to the super-close gates on the 6-speed) and dropping a valve, forcing them to listen as their engine implodes itself. I liked the automatic because of the very quick, noninvasive manual-shifting system, and its non-engine-grenading nature. I know that may have just made some of you guys queasy, but i'm fine with it and it still gets around the track quickly and is a blast at 7,900rpm. Either way, a 2100-2200lbs car with 230-280hp will be quick regardless; and if i had a turbo, the shifting points would matter much less, IMO.
There was a revision to the trans where that is no longer an issue on the later years.
You're going to have a harder time making the power on an auto due to the fact that it saps more power, and the automatic GTS was actually the SLOWEST of all the 7th gen Celicas.
Losing battle imo, but you do what makes you happy.
In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:
Well, i'm sure with weight reduction and the HP numbers i have in mind, it'll be fine. Like i said, i'm in no competition. It was the first car i ever bought and it has very high sentimental value to me. If i could get to 230hp at 2,150lbs then i'd have a PTWR of 9.3 which would make the car plenty quick. It'd be a better ratio in fact, than a Mustang GT-- not that i'm claiming i could directly compete with one, the ratio is just a worthy goal. Although, i'm sure you've likely written off my build by this point.
Every time someone mentions octane ratings, I try to preach that octane is not a "power" rating for fuel. High-octane fuel is NOT more powerful than regular, nor is it more efficient (higher mpg); it simply resists preignition better.
In fact, higher-octane gas is actually less effective (less power output per volume burned) than lower-octane gas. It is merely that engines can make better use of it by running higher compression ratios, more spark advance, or more boost without preignition knock. All these strategies increase the power output of the engine more than is lost by using the less-volatile high octane gas.
Virtually all modern cars have a knock sensor that retards the spark when it sense preignition, so you are less likely to damage your engine by running too-low octane than in the old days. However, it will lower your power output due to the retarded spark. If you run higher octane, the ECU will advance spark if possible, making more power. BUT: there is almost always a limit to how far it will advance the spark, no matter what gas you run. So if your owner's manual says that your stock car is optimized for 89 octane, there is absolutely no reason to run 91 octane in it. All you are doing is wasting money because the ECU will never advance spark enough to take advantage of any higher octane. That's even more true with ultra-high-octane race gas.
In reply to Duke:
I didn't know that-- thank you. Admittedly, when i run 93 instead of 91, it feels as though the car is "woken up," a bit.
Leaded gas will kill o2 sensors and cats.
EdenPrime wrote: In reply to Duke: I didn't know that-- thank you. Admittedly, when i run 93 instead of 91, it feels as though the car is "woken up," a bit.
In that case, it seems like your stock ECU is able to advance the spark enough to take advantage of the higher octane - cool!
Preignition, or knock, or ping, is essentially a gasoline engine dieseling. It pings because the explosion is occurring before the piston hits the top of its travel. The real problem is that because it is not timed correctly, it can damage the engine if severe enough. Because the explosion is not happening at maximum compression, it burns more slowly and therefore burns way too lean, which significantly raises the cylinder temperatures - even enough to slag the piston tops.
Lots of things can cause preignition: if the timing is advanced too far, if the compression ratio is very high, if you're running boost, or even if the engine is running hot. Basically, the higher the octane rating, the harder it is to ignite the explosion, in order to reduce the chance of preignition in a high-performance engine.
Seen the table of contents for the December GRM issue? Right next to the bar code...
I think you guys will be very interested in seeing what happened. Turns out there's a lot of myths about different gasoline blends that got busted...
In regards to actual race gas, it is typically oxygenated. When you get more oxygen into a motor, you make more power.
MadScientistMatt wrote: Seen the table of contents for the December GRM issue? Right next to the bar code...
Yes, this. I actually sat and read the story again the night I was uploading files to the printer. Fascinating stuff.
jg
I'm happy to be edumacated, right after my mailman gets done reading my copy.
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