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Cotton
Cotton PowerDork
12/15/17 11:05 p.m.

996tt hands down

nutherjrfan
nutherjrfan Dork
12/16/17 12:15 a.m.

I have only a few rules with cars. Whilst I may be the driver I have been a passenger. Deep rear squab with ample legroom back there. And as a driver I don't want to feel like I'm sitting on a penny bicycle. Nissans mostly exempted of course.

The Giulia looks gorgeous tho'.

smiley

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
12/16/17 8:23 a.m.

It would be interesting to talk to my friends who now have a Giulia, but I'm not really active in AROC.  I have a feeling that they will revive the club quite a bit- as they can be great cars.

To Alfisti- I'd bet that the new car is a LOT more reliable than the last cars that we were able to get- either 164 model you could get.  So in my view, I suspect that they are pretty reliable cars.  

But that is relative.

If we were in the market for that kind of car, it would very much make me consider getting a Ford over the Giulia (as in the Ford is the obvious choice, but this car would make me think twice).

As a side comment- when I saw this thread, I originally thought- why would anyone want to DD a 50 year old car that wasn't common in the US....  It's been a while.

turtl631
turtl631 Reader
12/16/17 8:29 a.m.

How's the 996TT auto? I rented an auto 987 on Turo and it was a pretty old school, clunky auto.  I was not a fan.  I know the 996TT is a great car but also a 10+ year old German car and he's talking about a DD for snowy weather in the mountains... I'd lean towards the new and reliable end of things personally.  

BoxheadCougarTim
BoxheadCougarTim MegaDork
12/16/17 9:45 a.m.
sevenracer said:

Arent the lease rates going to be brutal with all the miles you are putting on?

It wouldn't be my only car - I'll probably still sell some of the toys but most likely I'll keep the Mini for now and I will keep the ND. Plus it looks like my work assignments are going to change again, with a chance of a lot more air travel next year.

All that said, the whole work thing is a bit up in the air at the moment and I don't know if I'll spend as much time in Silly Valley next year as I did this year. I'm kinda holding off on a decision because of that, but OTOH I have to make a decision at some point...

GTwannaB said:

Fusion Sport is 350+ hp awd right? Not a fancy nameplate but nicer than you might think  

autoweek has a really good review of the AWD supercharged Jaguar XE

Fusion Sport is definitely something I overlooked, thanks for pointing it out. I've driven a few Fusion Hybrids as rental cars and quite liked them, even though they don't elicit a big "wantmusthavesurelywoulddiewithout" reaction. No manufacturer's lease deals though (I just checked).

BoxheadCougarTim
BoxheadCougarTim MegaDork
12/16/17 9:57 a.m.
alfadriver said:

To Alfisti- I'd bet that the new car is a LOT more reliable than the last cars that we were able to get- either 164 model you could get.  So in my view, I suspect that they are pretty reliable cars.  

That is what I'm hoping for - As mentioned I haven't owned an Alfa for a decade, but even the 156s I owned in the UK were better quality than what I had been used to.

Let's also not forget that my baseline for reliability is a Porsche 996 that needed about $12k worth of engine work and a MINI Cooper S that I already spent more money on catch up maintenance and mods than I spent on the car initially.

But that is relative.

If we were in the market for that kind of car, it would very much make me consider getting a Ford over the Giulia (as in the Ford is the obvious choice, but this car would make me think twice).

I hear you. I would agree that the Ford/Lincoln would probably be the sane, adult choice. I failed both the sanity and the adulting class though .

That said, I think the Fusion Sport might be worth another look, at least as long as there's not Focus RS with a DCT that I've overlooked somewhere.

As a side comment- when I saw this thread, I originally thought- why would anyone want to DD a 50 year old car that wasn't common in the US....  It's been a while.

I am honored that you consider me nuts enough, err, enough of an enthusiast to contemplate this.

BoxheadCougarTim
BoxheadCougarTim MegaDork
12/16/17 10:00 a.m.
turtl631 said:

How's the 996TT auto? I rented an auto 987 on Turo and it was a pretty old school, clunky auto.  I was not a fan.  I know the 996TT is a great car but also a 10+ year old German car and he's talking about a DD for snowy weather in the mountains... I'd lean towards the new and reliable end of things personally. 

We've owned a tiptronic 996 before (the one that was totaled earlier in the year). Same transmission can be found in the 996TT as well - I wouldn't necessarily call it clunky, but it is pretty old school. Given that the current alternative is to drive a manual trans Mini Cooper in Silicon Valley traffic with an iffy achilles tendon, I can partially ignore the old schoolness of the 996 autoboxes. Yes, PDK would be great but wallet says no.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
12/16/17 2:53 p.m.

We cross shopped the Fusion Sport as well. It was a nice car. More like 320hp, not 350.  But the fact that you can buy a Fusion at a variety of trims from the low 20s through the low 40s kind of shows. 

BoxheadCougarTim
BoxheadCougarTim MegaDork
12/21/17 9:56 a.m.

I figured I'll check a Giulia out in person before going any further down this rabbit hole, as there are multiple Alfa dealers in the Bay Area and I may be able to squeeze in a visit before driving home for the holidays tonight. So I tried to find a decent dealer via Yelp (yes, I know). That brought up some "interesting" reviews. Oh boy.

At that point the AADD kicked in and I couldn't help but notice that there are now dealers that advertise 2018 Civic Type Rs for MSRP. Not that the CTR matches *any* of my requirements, other than my wife actually liking the looks of it.

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt PowerDork
12/21/17 11:23 a.m.

You might want to at least test drive the WRX before writing off their version of the CVT. The Subaru CVTs feel mostly like a conventional automatic and do not try to impersonate either a speedboat or a Nissan.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
12/21/17 12:14 p.m.

In reply to MadScientistMatt :

It seems like that is true, but I still have major reservations over the long term ownership outlook for CVTs. 

STM317
STM317 Dork
12/21/17 12:38 p.m.

In reply to BoxheadCougarTim :

My main takeaway from this thread is that your wife and I have very different taste in automobile aesthetics.

nderwater
nderwater UltimaDork
12/21/17 1:35 p.m.

Go drive the Alfa. It was not the car I hoped it would be, but YMMV.

I had been watching Giulia lease prices for months before heading to the Alfa dealer.  I test drove the Ti I back-to-back with an off-lease BMW 435i Series Gran Coupe. I really wanted to like the Alfa and didn't expect much of the Bimmer, but the BMW was the better car by pretty much every measure.

For what it's worth, I have plans to test drive the new Stinger this weekend for comparison.

BoxheadCougarTim
BoxheadCougarTim MegaDork
12/21/17 1:50 p.m.

In reply to nderwater :

Please let me know what you think of the Stinger. I'll have to drive to Sacramento between the holidays and will probably drop by the Alfa dealer there. And try to ignore that they also have a couple of 4Cs.

nderwater
nderwater UltimaDork
12/21/17 2:25 p.m.

Will do.  I spent half my time at the Alfa dealer drooling over the lone 4C they had in the showroom but they weren't interested in letting me test drive it.

Type Q
Type Q SuperDork
12/21/17 3:34 p.m.

Tim,

I know you said no SUV's, but I am going to suggest you look at a Mazda CX-9.  I think it meets the rest of your requirements.  Fiat/Chrysler is copying the stying for their Maserati CUV.  I have greater trust in something built in Hiroshima than anywhere in Italy right now. 

Perhaps you could think of it as a nice minivan in form factor more people will buy.  smiley 

BoxheadCougarTim
BoxheadCougarTim MegaDork
12/21/17 3:57 p.m.

In reply to Type Q :

Well, I appear to have made my local Mazda dealer's "daft enough to own an RX-8" mailing list, so they keep spamming me with lease offers for CX-3/CX-5s. I might just go and check one of them out...

nderwater
nderwater UltimaDork
12/22/17 8:57 p.m.

The weather was in the low 50's with light rain, but I trekked over to the Kia dealer anyway. Kia.com is advertising leases on base Stingers for $299/mo after $3K down and I wanted to compare the turbo I4 to the twin turbo V6. As it happens, they only had one production car on the lot to drive--a loaded Stinger GT.

To my eye the Stinger looks great in the flesh from pretty much any angle.  Maybe a bit too much chrome on the top models, but the car has presence.  Inside, the surfaces you look at and touch are nice, but there are some hard plastics down low on the trans tunnel and door panels.  The black leather interior is nice, but the optional red leather looks fantastic.  Overall interior materials is not quite on par with the BMW 4 Series Gran Coupe it emulates, but the 440i starts from $50K and doesn't even come with leather seats at that price.

The Stinger drives exactly like it should - nicely weighted steering, firm but comfortable suspension, more than enough power. I couldn't really explore the limits in the cold and wet conditions with a salesman in the car, but I did pilot the car swiftly through some hilly office parks and gave it a number of full throttle blasts. It sounds great under throttle, turbo lag is negligible, and the paddle-shift transmission feels good. Kia obviously did its homework in engineering this new platform.  I look forward to chance to drive this car in the dry with less traffic and less supervision.

Options on the Stinger drive the prices up quickly, so the base trims are the cars to get. The 255 hp turbo I4 Stinger lists for $32K and compares favorably with the new Alfa Romeo Giulia, which starts from $38K (if you can even find one at that price). The 365 hp twin turbo V6 Stinger GT starts from $38K and offers a ton of bang for the buck.  AWD is a $2K option on either model.  The car I drove was a loaded RWD GT2 trim and stickered just over $50K (too much, in my opinion) but the dealer offered $6K in incentives if I made a down payment on the car today.  I think the Gran Coupe is the better car, but apples-to-apples it costs a lot more money and Kia's 10/5/5 year warranty will be in effect long after the BMW maintenance expenses have begun to really snowball.

Online configurator: https://www.kia.com/us/en/build/stinger/2018/trims?trim=121&model=751

skierd
skierd SuperDork
12/22/17 10:04 p.m.

You should really try the WRX with the CVT. Here’s my take from a while ago...

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/have-you-ever-driven-a-car-that-you-thought-was-perfect/119630/page1/

CN: I thought it was damn near a perfect sporty car as it sits from the factory.  CVT included. It’s just good. 

A close second would be the Fusion Sport based on the specs but my local ford dealer hadn’t gotten one yet so I haven’t test driven it. 

Also, winter prep? In Nevada?  I live in Fairbanks, Alaska and my winter prep is changing to 0w30 oil so it starts at -40 if I forget to plug in, throwing my winter kit in the wagon, and swapping to winter tires. Not sure what else you really need to do to “prep” for winter other than make sure the coolant won’t freeze...

BoxheadCougarTim
BoxheadCougarTim MegaDork
12/23/17 5:12 p.m.

In reply to nderwater :

Thanks for the updates on the Stinger. Like you, I find the price tag of the nicely appointed ones a little too high, although I can see the appeal of the V6. Warranty in my case wouldn't be that interesting due to the lease (so hopefully the lease ends before the warranty). From your experience I probably should see if I can find a dealer that has one, as my local dealer definitely doesn't.

BoxheadCougarTim
BoxheadCougarTim MegaDork
12/23/17 5:16 p.m.

In reply to skierd :

Well, I have to cross a couple of passes between 7000'-8000', that tends to affect travel a bit. Especially when it's dumping snow like crazy, but that's something that hasn't happened this winter. Yet, hopefully.

Also, Caltrans really doesn't like if you try to hit the passes in a snowstorm without either chains (on snow tires) or AWD with snow tires. That's why something AWD comes in really handy here in winter.

Thanks for the review of the WRX, that's actually very different from what I expected. I guess I really should look at one.

BoxheadCougarTim
BoxheadCougarTim MegaDork
12/23/17 5:39 p.m.

And right from the "WTF, Subaru?" department - turns out you can only get the performance package on the WRX Premium (which I really would want, because Recaros and moonroof delete) when you get the manual transmission. Select CVT and it disappears into thin air...

paulmpetrun
paulmpetrun Reader
12/23/17 6:24 p.m.

My nephew just bought a Guilia TI about a week ago.  He got his from a dealer just outside Cleveland, Ohio.  I know that may be a little out of your search driving distance(by a mile or 2000), but this dealer was seriously awesome.  Tossed him the keys to one and said "just be back before closing".  Yes for real.  He went on an unsupervised 50 or 60 mile test drive.  When he came back the dealer simply asked what did he think...  No high pressure, games, nothing!  Then they started talking numbers.  No games, no nothing.  Dealer said they have 8ish grand in incentives off.  Nephew wanted to trade off a leased mazda three.  Dealer said they didn't really want the car, but would knock another grand off to have a straight deal.  Done!  So, no on to the good part.  The car.  WOW!!!  It rides, drives, and is more comfortable than anything I've been in, in a very long time.  The usual "Alfa adjectives", soul, passion, blahblah.  But what blew me away was the fit and finish.  Leather everywhere.  Some of the most comfortable seats I've ever sat in.  All of the controls, switches, and interfaces felt solid and like quality pieces.  More than enough power to keep up with traffic.  Shifting with the paddles was pleasant.  I am not a fan of the vw/audi dsg buttons.  The Alfa actually some feel to it, not video gamey.  When I got to drive it, it was very cold and rainy.  Pa in winter...  It was a fabulous drive.  Turn the wheel and the car went that way.  Potholes, undulations, transitions, they didn't really exist.  You felt them, but couldn't care.  Way more power equipment and gadgets than I like, but i'm not paying for it.  The car he got has every available option.  So far he loves it.  Just like everyone else, I will hold my breath for him on reliability.  I'd say go fo it.  Especially in lease form.  They have a four year warranty.  Hopefully lots of people buy them.  Then at some point they will less expensive used rides for the rest of us!  Good luck and Happy Holidays!

Paul

LanEvo
LanEvo HalfDork
12/23/17 7:08 p.m.

Does it need to be AWD?

One of the best SMG/DCT/DSG cars I’ve driven recently was the BMW M2. Prices are fair for what you get. I didn’t expect to like it, but I really fell in love with the car. 

BoxheadCougarTim
BoxheadCougarTim MegaDork
12/23/17 10:53 p.m.

In reply to paulmpetrun :

Thanks Paul, that was very helpful.

In reply to LanEvo :

Yes - I already have plenty of RWD and FWD. The whole idea of spending money on AWD is to get a better winter car, and more importantly get through the Caltrans controls with just snow tires and none of that silly "must have chains" stuff that's been all too common. Plus in some cases they will hold one-axle drive even with snows and chains, but let AWD with snow tires pass.

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