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Sept. 9, 2009 3:23 p.m. RX Reven' Reader

Hi Dr. Hess,

I haven’t seen the official list, but from personal observation, I know that up to early jets (Red Bull – Mig 15 for example) are permissible but with a restriction for “demonstration purposes only” which means you have to be flying to, during, or from some sort of air show…I imagine this rule gets wildly stretched 

Also, all weapons need to be rendered “unable to be restored to operational condition” and the ejection seat needs to be removed…this is casually referred to as the “hey buddy, don’t even think about chucking that thing over the LA basin” rule.
Sept. 9, 2009 3:57 p.m. keethrax New Reader

Dr. Hess wrote:

Jake wrote: Saw a bunch on the road a year or so back- talk about something you don't see every day, 10 or so Europas, all shiny and running down the road together...

I believe that is statistically impossible.

Nah, it's all a function of how many they set off with. For a big enough number of starters and a short enough distance, you could have ten on the road. It's just be a function of # of solving:

Number of Europas = (Number of Europas that started the ride/Distance so far) x some constant.

For the values of starting # and distance where the result = 10
Sept. 9, 2009 4:19 p.m. Dr. Hess PowerDork

Well, having actual experience in the beast, I'd have to go back to my statement of statistically impossible. There were only about 10,000 Europas ever made, of all years. Multiply that by a failure rate of 99.99% per mile of usage, and you can see that there just weren't enough possible candidates ever made to start out with and have that many at any point "down the road."
Sept. 9, 2009 4:22 p.m. keethrax New Reader

Dr. Hess wrote:

Well, having actual experience in the beast, I'd have to go back to my statement of statistically impossible. There were only about 10,000 Europas ever made, of all years. Multiply that by a failure rate of 99.99% per mile of usage, and you can see that there just weren't enough possible candidates ever made to start out with and have that many at any point "down the road."

I didn't realize the total was that low. In that case, I think you may be right. you could solve the equation in a theoretical sense, but that may bee it...
Sept. 9, 2009 4:23 p.m. Dr. Hess PowerDork

RX, you've probably heard of my classmates then. Google MIG21 and Galveston and that'll be them. I think they paid 10 large for the MIG21, but it needed a lot of work to get it airworthy and was going to cost $1K/hour to fly. The trainer was only going to cost $300/hr to fly. They got air shows to pay for the fuel for them to fly it to. Before they were certified to fly it, they'd just go to the CAF and say "Hey, who wants to fly a MIG trainer to the airshow? I'm in the backseat." They bought them from some east Europeans after the fall.
Sept. 9, 2009 5:54 p.m. billy3esq Dork

RX Reven' wrote:

... the ejection seat needs to be removed….

I've seen L-39s with hot seats, although that doesn't mean they were legal.
Sept. 9, 2009 6:22 p.m. aussiesmg Dork

I am sort of gambling on the Triumph Stag lmao
Sept. 9, 2009 6:31 p.m. Osterkraut Dork

Mental wrote: The Burn Notice Charger for example.

Want that car. 73. Favorite year.

Not sure about the white interior, though.
Sept. 9, 2009 6:42 p.m. MitchellC HalfDork

Back to the original question: Will the "new" GTO ever be valuable? The LS6 may be popular down the line. The 03-04 Cobra shouldn't be discounted either. It still looks like it's the only IRS Mustang to be released from Ford. Ram SRT-10 with the shortbed and a stick?

Solstice Coupe.
Sept. 9, 2009 6:54 p.m. Tim Baxter Online Editor

Just occurred to me. Solstice coupe. Buy one and never drive it.
Sept. 9, 2009 7:07 p.m. ReverendDexter HalfDork

Tim Baxter wrote:

Just occurred to me. Solstice coupe. Buy one and never drive it.

Yeah, I said that 2 pages ago, hahaha.
Sept. 9, 2009 8:07 p.m. amg_rx7 Reader

in an uncertain economy where just about everything is depreciating except gas prices, cash is king
Sept. 10, 2009 5:55 a.m. tuna55 Reader

/Political Sidenote

"cash is king" is a terrible fallacy in a land where the real inflation value is double digits, and they had to invent a new way of calculating inflation to make it palatable.

/Political Sidenote

And no, I am not buying any retired military aircraft. This stands, to date, as the weirdest possible half related suggestion.
Sept. 10, 2009 10:17 a.m. aircooled SuperDork

I believe those CJ's are going for over 100 grand now.

One thing of note, I was watching one of those auction shows the other night. They had a string of 84 Corvettes go through. Some with REALLY low miles (like a couple thousand), basically "buy it and put it in a garage" type cars. As I remember most of them sold in the $15,000 range!!! Just think about it, what was an 84 Corvette new?, $22,000!!! Some poor schmuk stored that car for 25 years and got -$7000 out of it! And never even got to drive it!!

An airplane is a MUCH safer investment than a car, they are very constant in their appreciation. Storage?, well, that's another story. Haven't ever heard of someone putting a plane away in storage for an investment, probably because they appreciate even if you use them (airframe time generally is not an issue with general aviation planes, engine time is, but those are easy, but not cheap, to replace).
Sept. 10, 2009 11:04 a.m. WilD Reader

aircooled wrote: One thing of note, I was watching one of those auction shows the other night. They had a string of 84 Corvettes go through. Some with REALLY low miles (like a couple thousand), basically "buy it and put it in a garage" type cars. As I remember most of them sold in the $15,000 range!!! Just think about it, what was an 84 Corvette new?, $22,000!!! Some poor schmuk stored that car for 25 years and got -$7000 out of it! And never even got to drive it!!

When you factor in inflation since 1984, the loss is even worse...
Sept. 10, 2009 11:48 a.m. Josh HalfDork

In reply to WilD:

If he'd put the money in Apple stock in '84 it'd be worth about a million and a quarter today.
Sept. 10, 2009 12:23 p.m. Dr. Hess PowerDork

If he'd bought Enron, or GM, or MCI/WorldCom or....
Sept. 10, 2009 12:35 p.m. Tim Baxter Online Editor

Dr. Hess wrote:

If he'd bought Enron, or GM, or MCI/WorldCom or....

So the lesson is, don't buy stock in companies that are demonstrably inept and/or corrupt.
Sept. 10, 2009 12:46 p.m. Strizzo SuperDork

MitchellC wrote:

Back to the original question: Will the "new" GTO ever be valuable? The LS6 may be popular down the line. The 03-04 Cobra shouldn't be discounted either. It still looks like it's the only IRS Mustang to be released from Ford. Ram SRT-10 with the shortbed and a stick?

Solstice Coupe.

the previous cobra (non-supercharged) was also IRS, just not as well known or popular.
Sept. 10, 2009 1:04 p.m. njansenv Reader

^ See, that there is FUNNY.(Tim)
Sept. 10, 2009 1:13 p.m. Dr. Hess PowerDork

Yeah, Tim. The lesson is to phone up the CEO of the company and say "Are you now or have you ever been inept and/or corrupt or the subject of a Dilbert strip?" Then invest your money according to their answer.

Oh, and $22K of gold in 1984 would be about 66K today. $22K of $100 bills today would be about $7K in 1984.
Sept. 17, 2009 9:55 a.m. tuna55 Reader

the 03/04 Cobra is an interesting idea. It's far newer than I anticipated being collectible. Does anyone have any information regarding year VS model year VS price for mustangs? I know that Corvettes tend to start appreciating between 10-20 years after they are new. Since the Cobra was special, the 03 is nearing this threshold.

Is the Lotus Esprit going to be as godf awful unreliable as other Lotii?

Other than the Cobra, the Lotus, 3rd Gen RX7, ZR1 seem to be at the top of the list.

Is a regular plain old 911SC going to be collectible?
Sept. 17, 2009 10:02 a.m. Cotton Reader

tuna55 wrote:

the 03/04 Cobra is an interesting idea. It's far newer than I anticipated being collectible. Does anyone have any information regarding year VS model year VS price for mustangs? I know that Corvettes tend to start appreciating between 10-20 years after they are new. Since the Cobra was special, the 03 is nearing this threshold.

Is the Lotus Esprit going to be as godf awful unreliable as other Lotii?

Other than the Cobra, the Lotus, 3rd Gen RX7, ZR1 seem to be at the top of the list.

Is a regular plain old 911SC going to be collectible?

I think all aircooled 911s will be collectible eventually....just like the 356s. For the air cooled 911s I prefer the 84-89 Carreras over the SCs.
Sept. 17, 2009 10:16 a.m. tuna55 Reader

side conversation, and the other questions posed are still active... but why the 84-89 over the SC?

Thanks!
Sept. 17, 2009 10:19 a.m. Dr. Hess PowerDork

The later (Stevens) Esprits are not unreliable. They aren't quie a Camry, and have more routine maintenance, but they are really pretty good. At our English car club, when everyone is talking about The Prince of Darkness, letting the smoke out, sound of rust, etc. I'm left out because my Esprit does none of that. (My Europa on the other hand...) The later the Esprit, the more reliable. My main problem right now is a leaky AC system. Big deal. They all have some pecularities, of course, but as I said, I think a S4s is about the ultimate for future collecting, although I think the last V8 would probably do well too. And an X180R would be a good choice. One goes on sale every year or two.

The problem is that with few exceptions, Loti just don't soar in price.

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