The asphalt oval, where I race, has decided to avoid rainouts. There will be no more rainouts, which means there is the possibilty of racing in the rain! I do have some experience in Formula Fords, but that was 15 years ago and only drove on a "damp" track. My race car is based on a early 80's GM metric chassis. Basically, the only "stock" parts are the frame rails. It weighs 2800 lbs. and is powered by a GM Crate engine. Track owner claims there will be Hoosier rain tires available. Questions: How badly will the Lexan windshield fog up? Will Rain-X and some sort of anti-fog work? A defroster and/or wiper would be tough to use as we do not have run an alternator. Do camber settings change when on a wet track? Obviously, we run about 6 degrees positive on right front and 2 degrees negative on left front. Would it be adventageous to decrease right front camber to gain more tire surface on a wet track? Do road racers, track day racers or solo racers change their driving style on a wet course? In other words, how much do you really slow down. Would you avoid braking entering the corners? Thanks for any suggestions or input!
-
May 20, 2011 5:34 p.m. RDS None
-
May 20, 2011 5:43 p.m. 914Driver SuperDork
RDS wrote:
The asphalt oval, where I race, has decided to avoid rainouts. There will be no more rainouts, which means there is the possibilty of racing in the rain! I do have some experience in Formula Fords, but that was 15 years ago and only drove on a "damp" track. My race car is based on a early 80's GM metric chassis. Basically, the only "stock" parts are the frame rails. It weighs 2800 lbs. and is powered by a GM Crate engine. Track owner claims there will be Hoosier rain tires available. Questions: How badly will the Lexan windshield fog up?
If the inside & outside are the same temperature nothing fogs.
Will Rain-X and some sort of anti-fog work?
See above.
A defroster and/or wiper would be tough to use as we do not have run an alternator.
Adds weight.
Do camber settings change when on a wet track? Obviously, we run about 6 degrees positive on right front and 2 degrees negative on left front. Would it be adventageous to decrease right front camber to gain more tire surface on a wet track? Do road racers, track day racers or solo racers change their driving style on a wet course? In other words, how much do you really slow down.
Would you avoid braking entering the corners?
Only if you're going slow in the straight.
Thanks for any suggestions or input!
-
May 20, 2011 6:41 p.m. erohslc Reader
I loved racing in the rain (SCCA G-Prod Spitfire). Driver skill (and bravery) become the dominant (and equalizing) factors. The key is to avoid transient tire loading that exceeds the wet traction and breaks the tires loose. Once you start to slide, it's hard to recover without bouncing off of something. Also, reading the track surface, foot-by-foot is essential. Damp pavement is far different that wet pavement, and the differences in surface texture become very important. You will learn where you can be brave, and where you should bide your time and let others make mistakes. So sudden changes in steering, braking, accelerating are bad. Cultivate smoothness and continuity, blending the changes together. Also try to drive defensively. If the the guy inside you goes 11/10 and loses it, he will take you with him into the wall, even if you are only at 9/10. So pick your passes and car position carefully. If your setup is good dry, then it will be 'in the ballpark' wet, but softer springs, shocks, and roll bars will help to minimize the tendency to break loose. Maybe try and test in the wet, and have a set of softer settings or parts ready to go.
Have fun dammit!
Carter
-
May 20, 2011 6:56 p.m. dean1484 SuperDork
Things will not be the same temp due to heat from the motor. FogX inside and RainX outside has been the our answer for years now.
-
May 20, 2011 7:51 p.m. friedgreencorrado SuperDork
I seem to recall an article I read years ago saying that lateral grip will change more than longidudinal grip, but I can't remember if that was for street tires (long, narrow tire patch) or race tires (short, fat tire patch).
-
May 21, 2011 9:21 a.m. iceracer Dork
Not running an alternator is old school, even the modifieds are running them. Makes for better ignition. 6 degrees positive on the right front. I sincerly hope you meant neagative, 6 degrees is an awful lot anyway. You didn't say anything about tires. If you are running treaded tires, then some with more tread depth would help. Do Not lower the pressures. The tires will be running cooler so less heat build up. Be very smooth.
-
May 21, 2011 12:50 p.m. fastmiata HalfDork
Disconnect sway bars. Increase tire pressures. Mark Donohue says to treat it as a drag race. You might want to hook up some form of an air duct or hose blowing on the windshield.
-
May 21, 2011 3:25 p.m. RDS New Reader
Thanks for all the input! Yes, my bad, 6 degrees negative on RF camber. I run a front and rear sway bar. Would you suggest disconnecting rear only, or both. Another question(s): If we just removed the Lexan windshield, what other problems would it create? Would tear-offs be effective? Helmet fogging? What kind of drop off in lap times would you expect? Dry track averages 15.5 second laps on 3/8 mile track.
-
May 22, 2011 7:07 a.m. aussiesmg SuperDork
You WILL have a fogged windshield, the temps in and out of the car are very different, also rain inside the car will create a lot of moisture. I ran a heater core with a small fan blowing onto the area in front of my eyes, the fan could be an issue for you but you could try a small battery powered one. Minimal weight compared to zero vision.
Definitely use RainX and keep a rag handy for any chance you get to wipe the screen down.
Wipers are more trouble than they're worth IMHO. They lift at speed and cannot keep up with the speed of a race car.
Of course my experience is road racing but just brake early, touch them with your left foot to get the water off them before you use them and drive smoother than you ever have before.
-
May 22, 2011 9:23 a.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork
1) fog - use a duct that directs fast moving outside air onto the inside of the window and fog-x. It will still fog first thing in the AM but once you get it moving it clears right out.
2) Smoooooth transitions. You might want to get on a wet skidpad and work on the butt dyno a little. Fast hands and soft feet. Get big mirrors and a stronger rear bumper
3) Soften the car. I don't know much about setting up for a banked oval but in a front engined rwd road race car I drop the compression damping and unhook the rear swaybar. Ideally - I'd swap the springs, dampers and sways to a softer setup with ride height to accommodate the roll but my budget and motivation are both too low for that sort of thing.
-
May 22, 2011 9:45 a.m. rebelgtp SuperDork
If you want to learn how to race in the rain the answer is come to Oregon. No I am not kidding. I have been out at the track multiple times while pro racers were trying to work on their wet track skills. Living out here my entire life I have just naturally developed the skills for pushing through a hard corner on a wet sloppy chunk of road. As others have mentioned smoothness is key. You really have to feel what is happening with your butt and transition that into balancing out with your throttle and hand work. I have pushed so hard into a corner I ended up sideways infront of the car behind me, basically a four wheel drift (unintentionally caused by to much speed carried into a down hill hard left while on the outside trying to make a pass on a wet surface). I was sliding and managed to correct before there was an accident. If I had hit the brakes in that situation there would have been a huge wreck. With the propper application of throttle and smooth hand work the car was straightened out and I just kept going.
At one point I was out at PIR doing the skid car practice while a CART driver (this was in '98) was practicing on the track. They ended up stopping practice to come watch me in the skid car talk about cool. If you have never done a skid car practice they are a hoot. Think runnin a car through an autocross course with close to zero traction. The car is on a frame work that lifts it up reducing your traction, in fact you can raise the car to the point the tires aren't even touching the pavement.
-
May 22, 2011 10:26 a.m. iceracer Dork
As far as keeping the windshield clear, you should see what our iceracers come up with.
-
May 23, 2011 8:56 a.m. pitbull113 New Reader
Stay in the pits. Don't buy rain tires. Spend savings on beer. No bodywork required after demo derby that will insue.Win Win
-
May 23, 2011 10:42 a.m. 44Dwarf Dork
Great book! When i get a dog his name will be Enzo.
My class dosn't run in the rain. Crash fest will insue even with tinnyest amount of rain.
44
-
May 23, 2011 12:48 p.m. iceracer Dork
Loved that book, made me laugh and cry.
Running an oval in the rain would be like an Enduro where 2% of the cars finish.
-
May 23, 2011 4:18 p.m. wbjones SuperDork
when I was talking with Randy Pobst several yrs ago at the Rolex, I asked him about driving there in the rain... he said the infield was brutal but the the banking ... no problem at all.. the water sheeted off but the infield puddled
-
May 24, 2011 5:49 a.m. aeronca65t Dork
I raced in the rain at Louden last weekend (NH Vintage).
Here's ~my favourite example~ of racing in the rain. Even with only 75 HP, you have to be judious with turns and throttle......hard to do while racing.
By the way, the red car leading me most of the time won the 1949 Watkins Glen Grand Prix. It's a flathead V-8 powered Riley special built by the Collier brothers and owned now by Pete McManus (it's known as the Ardent Alligator).
-
May 24, 2011 6:15 a.m. vijay5250
The Art of Racing in the Rain my rating: didn't like itit was okliked itreally liked itit was amazing add to my books Added to my books! add my review Loading-trans Loading... View the full version of this book online Enzo knows he is different from other dogs: a philosopher with a nearly human soul (and an obsession with opposable thumbs), he has educated himself by watching television extensively, and by listening very closely to the words of his master, Denny Swift, an up-and-coming race car driver. Tandem Car Trailer
-
May 24, 2011 9:37 a.m. iceracer Dork
Racing on ice with non-studded tires is a good example Probably even slipperyer.
-
May 24, 2011 11:19 a.m. 44Dwarf Dork
iceracer wrote:
Racing on ice with non-studded tires is a good example Probably even slipperyer.
Try it on a motorcyle! and add jumps! Winter Enduro-cross. What a blast!
