CaptainSpaulding
CaptainSpaulding New Reader
6/3/10 8:07 p.m.

You front wheel drive dudes have any suggestions for the alignment on my 94 golf sport?

I just tossed a set of HOR springs and bilsteins on the car. Lowered it about a inch. The only other mod is a big nuespeed front bar.

Mostly street driving and lets say 3-4 rally cross events and 3-4 NASA TT events.

vwcorvette
vwcorvette New Reader
6/5/10 10:01 a.m.

Dump the front bar! Unless you mean strut tower bar. Why make an understeering car want to understeer more?

If on the street be careful of too much camber because of tire wear. Max camber for anything else.

cxhb
cxhb Reader
6/5/10 10:27 a.m.

I have no idea how a Golf drives but being FWD I would leave the rear 0 toe and 0 camber. Fronts camber should be dictated by tires used (My Toyo RA1's like -2 degrees, some people like more) -1.5 is what I run on my summer "fun" street tire. Caster for some R compounds usually say "as much as possible". I would say 0 toe. Toe would wear out your tires, R compound or otherwise, much faster than camber will.

Hope that helps out some!

and yeah ditch that front bar...

iceracer
iceracer Dork
6/5/10 6:47 p.m.

Caster is probably the best improvement when it comes to handling and it doesn't wear the tires.
Removing the front bar will reduce the understeer,maybe, It will lean more and could make it push more, lack of tire contact. Better to stiffen the rear. The key to strut suspension is to get as little lean as possible.

vwcorvette
vwcorvette New Reader
6/6/10 2:12 p.m.

When I had my rabbit I had no front bar, gti rear bar, and Nuespeed red springs (front 400, rear 350) with Bilstein HDs. My instructor from COM while at Mt. Tremblant said it turned as good as his 3series. I've used similar combinations on subsequent VWs with much luck. Of course these have all been "streetable." Next car I build will be event specific--either a-x, or trackday, or ITB.

Unless you go to caster plates don't concern yourself with this as it's not adjustable on the VW. Sell the big front bar and take a look at Shine racing, Chris Albin, et al.

CaptainSpaulding
CaptainSpaulding New Reader
6/6/10 5:48 p.m.

I tossed the front bar on because in the dirt the car was over rotating. Now if I want some over steer I just swap to a different rear tire. Either a snow tire or a different compound rally tire.

I have a set of Kumho and a set of Falken rally tires mounted on different wheels.

I have not tried the front bar new springs combo on asphalt yet. With the stock bar/spring combo the car would over rotate and was a little wierd/scary on sweepers with elevation changes. The front bar/stock spring combo worked great as you could actually feel what the rear end was doing and you could modulate between over/under steer.

I did just complete a 180 mile road trip and the new bar/spring/damper combo was a nice improvement over the stock springs/KYBs.

It no longer feels like you are driving on rotten peaches.

CaptainSpaulding
CaptainSpaulding New Reader
6/6/10 5:48 p.m.

I tossed the front bar on because in the dirt the car was over rotating. Now if I want some over steer I just swap to a different rear tire. Either a snow tire or a different compound rally tire.

I have a set of Kumho and a set of Falken rally tires mounted on different wheels.

I have not tried the front bar new springs combo on asphalt yet. With the stock bar/spring combo the car would over rotate and was a little wierd/scary on sweepers with elevation changes. The front bar/stock spring combo worked great as you could actually feel what the rear end was doing and you could modulate between over/under steer.

I did just complete a 180 mile road trip and the new bar/spring/damper combo was a nice improvement over the stock springs/KYBs.

It no longer feels like you are driving on rotten peaches.

fifty
fifty Reader
6/6/10 11:34 p.m.

Keep the front bar - less camber change in the front when cornering. Ask any national level VW auto-xer . A lot of your oversteer might be driving habits eg. braking too deep into the corners, things like that.

CaptainSpaulding
CaptainSpaulding New Reader
6/8/10 1:18 p.m.
fifty wrote: Keep the front bar - less camber change in the front when cornering. Ask any national level VW auto-xer . A lot of your oversteer might be driving habits eg. braking too deep into the corners, things like that.

Could be. I have gone from V8 front engine rear drive race cars to a FWD 4 cyl car. Way different to what I am used to.

vwcorvette
vwcorvette New Reader
6/8/10 7:40 p.m.

I went the other way. 4cyl FWD to 8 cyl RWD. Jeez, was I confused. Oh wait--I still am.

CaptainSpaulding
CaptainSpaulding New Reader
6/8/10 8:30 p.m.

ha ha. A little bit of a learning curve there. Just think when you get it figured out you will no both and thats just cool.

Knurled
Knurled Reader
6/12/10 1:19 p.m.
vwcorvette wrote: Dump the front bar! Unless you mean strut tower bar. Why make an understeering car want to understeer more?

Front bars actually reduce understeer in a Golf. Think about it: The car is already a tripod, 100% weight transfer on the rear wheels. Front weight transfer therefore is strictly a matter of cornering force, you can't tweak it by altering the other end. Increasing the front roll stiffness just means the rear tire is three inches off of the ground instead of six, but you don't lose as much camber in the front, so it's a good thing.

Plus it makes the car less twitchy under braking.

For alignment, I've been a fan of the school of getting as much negative camber in the front as possible, since it won't be enough anyway. I'm a fan of zero toe in the front. Rear, well, it's not adjustable, and the cars have dynamic toe and camber change under load, which is why they start you out with a whole lot of rear negative camber and toe-in. And have funky ramp-shaped beam bushings that give you kinematic rear load understeer.

CaptainSpaulding
CaptainSpaulding New Reader
6/12/10 2:11 p.m.

Cool. Still learning this silly FWD stuff.

Knurled
Knurled Reader
6/13/10 7:43 a.m.

It looks goofy, but if you can, lower the rear of the car as far as you dare. This cuts down drastically on body roll, and helps put power down at corner exit.

One of the best things I ever did with mine was a pair of freebie Neuspeed Race springs in the back. Looked odd, but went like stink.

There's a lot of Golf handling info on the Improved Touring forum. A lot of it is A2 chassis stuff, but your A3 is just a refined A2 so it all still will apply to you.

CaptainSpaulding
CaptainSpaulding New Reader
6/13/10 5:31 p.m.

Any ideas on how to cheaply lower the rear? The springs on the car are for a VR6 car. i wanted increased stiffness with out loosing wheel travel since the car also gets ran in the dirt. Right now its higher in the rear than the front.

Still looking for a cheap header and chassis stifffening bars. Not much luck on A3 hot rod parts in the yards. Never had that problem when working on my Mustangs. This car is a new challenge for me. At least I have all the tools and the skills from working on VWs for a living the last ten years.

Still having fun and learning to drive a low HP car.

Knurled
Knurled Reader
6/13/10 5:54 p.m.

Heh.... I slammed the rear FOR the dirt. Cut down on tirespin exiting corners to a remarkable degree.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9XX477qz-s

Just wish it had power steering, and an ABA instead of the gutless 1.8.

CaptainSpaulding
CaptainSpaulding New Reader
6/13/10 6:21 p.m.

ha. Cool. Nice to see other VWs that arent slammed on stretched tires and scraping the oil pans over speed bumps.

I have the super cheap mini slip in the 80% setting. Works pretty good on the loose stuff.

jungle
jungle New Reader
6/18/10 3:10 p.m.

I would keep the oem front bar...unless you add in an aftermarket rear bar. If you are getting TOO much rotation play w/ your tire pressures.....I rally-x the same car...only suspension mod is bilstien heavy duty shocks. I run like 31 psi front (tires have inner tubes), and like 36 rear on 14" Bridgestone WinterForces.....pretty good...but ONCE in a while the hatch wants lead the car and start tank slapping.

the rears are only adjustable via shims.....which are a pita to install. Keep an eye on your front control arm bushings, and rear axle beam bushings...having them fail result in all sorts of wierdness.

Cone_Junky
Cone_Junky Reader
6/18/10 5:47 p.m.

It's an MKII not MKIII, but I can attest to the superiority of Shine equipment.

I ran Shine springs, rear Shine sway bar, no front sway on Bilstien Race/Rallye dampners. -2.7 camber at all four corners with about 1/4" toe out in front. That thing handled like a rock star. On cold tires it was loose, but it would rock 4 wheel drifts once they got sticky.

Our Preferred Partners
HYPWdnElimvOLE4jr8Garp8Vy3HpMyZc3YBn5Sj7tOVPm9jJhdwQ4JjigrguLOjV