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Zomby Woof
Zomby Woof UltraDork
5/17/12 1:02 p.m.
HiTempguy wrote: Shell absolutely, 100% has ZERO ethanol in their 91 vpower. It says so on the pump, and shell.ca confirms it.

Which they claim is top tier fuel. Top tier has an 8-10% requirement for ethanol. So which one is it?

I don't care either way, but I had this discussion with a friend who said something similar. After visits to some stations, and a few phone calls, it wasn't clear who was using what in any of their gas.

ShadowSix
ShadowSix HalfDork
5/17/12 1:24 p.m.
bravenrace wrote:
dculberson wrote: I'm not asking you to part it out, I'm asking you to buy my Quad4 CRX and do the manual swap to it. ;-)

Why would anyone want to buy a CRX with an inferior engine?

Hey, I don't know about inferior, but that Quad4 has more powah than anything Honda ever put in a CRX.

EDIT: BTW, I tried to talk my chumpcar/lemons team into buying the car (we already have a more traditional CRX, and an E30 4-banger that still needs a cage) but they weren't interested.

HiTempguy
HiTempguy SuperDork
5/17/12 1:29 p.m.
Zomby Woof wrote:
HiTempguy wrote: Shell absolutely, 100% has ZERO ethanol in their 91 vpower. It says so on the pump, and shell.ca confirms it.

Which they claim is top tier fuel. Top tier has an 8-10% requirement for ethanol. So which one is it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Tier_Detergent_Gasoline

I don't think so Tim, I believe you are confused Top Tier has nothing to do with ethanol and everything to do with detergents.

You know it is quite easy to test to see if fuel has ethanol in it, right? Shell does not (at least in Alberta) and claims so elsewhere.

Zomby Woof
Zomby Woof UltraDork
5/17/12 1:29 p.m.
bravenrace wrote:
dculberson wrote: I'm not asking you to part it out, I'm asking you to buy my Quad4 CRX and do the manual swap to it. ;-)

Why would anyone want to buy a CRX with an inferior engine?

What's wrong with a Quad 4?

Zomby Woof
Zomby Woof UltraDork
5/17/12 1:31 p.m.
HiTempguy wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Tier_Detergent_Gasoline I don't think so Tim, I believe you are confused Top Tier has nothing to do with ethanol and everything to do with detergents.

I hope you do better research as part of your job, Tim.

Carro Atrezzi
Carro Atrezzi HalfDork
5/17/12 1:35 p.m.
snap_understeer wrote:
93EXCivic wrote: In reply to snap_understeer: Why the hell would put premium gas in that POS?

Because Ethanol ruins the fuel injectors, fuel pump, fuel lines, etc on cars before 2004. I learned that the hard way.

i guess they forgot to send the memo to Jeep

but then again Jeep wrote the book...

HiTempguy
HiTempguy SuperDork
5/17/12 2:44 p.m.
Zomby Woof wrote: I hope you do better research as part of your job, Tim.

I provided evidence that Top Tier has nothing to do with ethanol, and Shell specifically claims their 91 has no ethanol (at least here in Alberta). Any searching of the interwebs supports these claims I have made and not just by forum junkies.

Alberta (iirc) requires 5% average ethanol content across all gas sold. Since Shell obviously sells more regular than premium, regular gets 10%, silver gets 5%, gold gets 0%.

PetroCan, for instance does:

"Does Ultra 94 contain ethanol? Does Petro-Canada still offer an ethanol-free gasoline? Ultra 94 contains ethanol. Due to the fact that various fuel grades are blended at the point of sale, most grades of Petro-Canada fuel may now contain up to 10% ethanol. This represents a change from the previous state, where premium fuel was ethanol-free at Petro-Canada."

My "research" is sound.

Zomby Woof
Zomby Woof UltraDork
5/17/12 3:50 p.m.
Top tier said: Deposit Control Standards The standards developed by the four automobile manufacturers (BMW, General Motors, Honda, and Toyota) for TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline are described below. This technical document describes the deposit control performance of unleaded gasoline at the retail level that minimizes deposits on fuel injectors, intake valves, and combustion chambers. These standards comprise the requirements for TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline. 1.3.1.2 Base Fuel. The base fuel shall conform to ASTM D 4814 and shall contain commercial fuel grade ethanol conforming to ASTM D 4806. All gasoline blend stocks used to formulate the base fuel shall be representative of normal U.S. refinery operations and shall be derived from conversion units downstream of distillation. Butanes and pentanes are allowed for vapor pressure adjustment. The use of chemical streams is prohibited. The base fuel shall have the following specific properties after the addition of ethanol: Contain enough denatured ethanol such that the actual ethanol content is no less than 8.0 and no more than 10.0 volume percent. Contain no less than 8 volume percent olefins. At least 75% of the olefins shall be derived from FCC gasoline as defined by CARB (advisory letter, April 19, 2001). Contain no less than 28 volume percent aromatics as measured by ASTM D 1319 or D 5580. Contain no less than 24 mg/kg sulfur as measured by ASTM D 2622 or D 5453. At least 60% of the sulfur shall be derived from FCC blend stock. Produce a 90% evaporation distillation temperature no less than 290F. as measured by ASTM D 86. Produce IVD no less than 500 mg averaged over all intake valves.

http://www.toptiergas.com/deposit_control.html

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