Javelin MegaDork
Aug. 21, 2013 5:45 p.m.

I present to you further proof that either 1. BMW has lot it's flippin' mind, B. All Germans have lost their flippin' minds (GT3, 911 Turbo, Audi photocopier department, etc), and/or III. that all humans have 473% less muscle mass in their left leg:

The BMW M3(4) will be automatic only.

You may now begin the gnashing of teeth!

mazdeuce Dork
Aug. 21, 2013 5:50 p.m.

No clutch pedal = auto? If I'm not mistaken, you can still shift, it's just that the clutching is gone.

Javelin MegaDork
Aug. 21, 2013 5:53 p.m.
mazdeuce wrote: No clutch pedal = auto? If I'm not mistaken, you can still shift, it's just that the clutching is gone.

It is to me and every other ambulatory human with two functional legs.

Seriously though, yes it's an automated manual, no I know nothing about it. I know the previous BMW versions (DCT?) were crappy. I know that no matter how much Audi likes to claim, theirs shifts without input and will refuse commands, especially downshifts. I have never driven an automated manual that I liked. (Funny though, because I've liked plenty of normal automatics!)

ransom UberDork
Aug. 21, 2013 5:53 p.m.

EDIT: Answered while I was typing...

Is this a dual-clutch automanual or similar, or an actual automatic?

HappyAndy SuperDork
Aug. 21, 2013 6:02 p.m.

I'm certain that the Germans have a sound (in their minds) technical reason for no longer offering a stick shift.

z31maniac
z31maniac PowerDork
Aug. 21, 2013 6:07 p.m.
Javelin wrote:
mazdeuce wrote: No clutch pedal = auto? If I'm not mistaken, you can still shift, it's just that the clutching is gone.

It is to me and every other ambulatory human with two functional legs.

Seriously though, yes it's an automated manual, no I know nothing about it. I know the previous BMW versions (DCT?) were crappy. I know that no matter how much Audi likes to claim, theirs shifts without input and will refuse commands, especially downshifts. I have never driven an automated manual that I liked. (Funny though, because I've liked plenty of normal automatics!)

If you think the DCT was crappy, you haven't driven one.

insert hyperbole about shifting my own gears*

aussiesmg MegaDork
Aug. 21, 2013 6:08 p.m.

I'm with you Jav, no clutch, no sale.

and yes I do buy new cars and manual ones.

amg_rx7 Dork
Aug. 21, 2013 6:09 p.m.

I think after decades of claiming that automatics were for invalids and people that can't drive, seems like Europeans are jumping on the automatic trans bandwagon. Sad

I've never had an auto that I didn't break. Even the 06 Mini with the POS 6 speed, flappy paddle, Aisan trans. On the other hand, I've never broken a manual trans or wore out a clutch.

oldtin UltraDork
Aug. 21, 2013 6:53 p.m.
irish44j UberDork
Aug. 21, 2013 7:38 p.m.
HappyAndy wrote: I'm certain that the Germans have a sound (in their minds) technical reason for no longer offering a stick shift.

costs too little to fix a standard clutch. BMW has to stay at the top of its game when it comes to making late-model cars as expensive as humanly possibly to maintain once the warranty is out.

jdbuilder New Reader
Aug. 21, 2013 7:40 p.m.

I'm torn, am I so hesitant due to the poor experiences in the past with automatics. Maybe it's that I enjoy rowing through the gears so that makes me an old school dinosaur afraid of evolving.

I don't know but does the death of manuals increase older manuals values in the future?

nderwater UberDork
Aug. 21, 2013 7:47 p.m.

In other news, Ferrari and Lamborghini already stopped selling cars with manual transmissions a couple model years back.

Welcome to the Future, boys.

yamaha PowerDork
Aug. 21, 2013 9:01 p.m.

In reply to Javelin:

If you drive a robomanual in automatic mode, it sucks. I for one enjoyed the SMG-II in the e46 m3. The egear in the ferrari, lambo, and maserati kinda sucks versus the smg though(yes I've driven all 4) Drive it like a manual and you'll be fine.

Knurled UberDork
Aug. 21, 2013 9:14 p.m.
Javelin wrote: Seriously though, yes it's an automated manual, no I know nothing about it. I know the previous BMW versions (DCT?) were crappy.

I believe the old BMW automated manual was a single clutch unit, not a dual-clutch system that could preselect the next gear.

I can understand why a company that wants to project an image of Technology would want to do away with three-pedal performance cars. After all, the highest forms of racing except one all use automatic transmissions... and the lone holdout is going to stick with three pedals and an H-gate because they're rather conservative in their allowances. Heck, they only recently allowed the use of fuel injection!

Knurled UberDork
Aug. 21, 2013 9:18 p.m.
irish44j wrote: costs too little to fix a standard clutch.

hahaha-ohwow.jpg

Clearly you haven't priced out how much it costs to do clutchwork on anything with a dual mass flywheel, which is just about everything nowadays.

Not that it matters, really. The OEMs don't care about maintenance costs other than keeping them low during the critical lease period. After that, who cares? The people who are going to get a new car will get a new one before the old one's clutch/trans wear out, and the people who don't serially purchase new cars are not profitable to cater to.

Knurled UberDork
Aug. 21, 2013 9:21 p.m.
Javelin wrote: You may now begin the gnashing of teeth!

*note: gnashing of teeth offer not valid because you can't miss a shift anymore

kanaric
kanaric Reader
Aug. 22, 2013 1:38 a.m.

every company will eventually move to transmissions like this.

Aug. 22, 2013 7:18 a.m.

Looks pretty good in DTM trim:

pinchvalve UltimaDork
Aug. 22, 2013 7:55 a.m.

I get that these transmissions are better and faster and offer more options and that all cars are going that way. But they will never be as fun. Why do you think sailboats are still around? Sure, they are slower than powerboats and you have to do a lot of manual labor to work one, but people ENJOY the act of sailing! I ENJOY the act of manually-shifting my cars. Luckily, this trend has not caught on in cars that I can actually afford. So, used Kias.

z31maniac
z31maniac PowerDork
Aug. 22, 2013 7:58 a.m.
pinchvalve wrote: I get that these transmissions are better and faster and offer more options and that all cars are going that way. But they will never be as fun. Why do you think sailboats are still around? Sure, they are slower than powerboats and you have to do a lot of manual labor to work one, but people ENJOY the act of sailing! I ENJOY the act of manually-shifting my cars. Luckily, this trend has not caught on in cars that I can actually afford. So, used Kias.

Why don't all the naysayers go actually drive one of these before poo-pooing them?

sobe_death HalfDork
Aug. 22, 2013 8:12 a.m.

Seriously! The BMW 7-speed that was offered with the last M3 was GOOD in manual mode, and they have been proven to hold over 800whp in a turbo application with an upgraded clutch pack. The Audi/VW/etc.. DSG is GOOD, even in automatic mode. I can't speak as to the Daimler group of transmissions, but if they are of the same quality as the other two German giants, bring em on. If I was buying(probably leasing) a new luxury car, I would opt for the DSG any day.

mad_machine MegaDork
Aug. 22, 2013 8:55 a.m.

BMW tried this with the M5. Enough resistance and they will cave to the "whims" of the Americans again.

In their mind the auto is better as it is faster, can hold more power, is not as easily abused as a manual, and is less work to use. All wins in their book

ansonivan Dork
Aug. 22, 2013 8:56 a.m.

I for one miss my crank start and manual distributor advance. Truth be told I kinda crave replacing points every 3,500 miles and lighting my acetylene headlamps.

ZOO SuperDork
Aug. 22, 2013 8:56 a.m.

Another site is reporting that the manual is alive and well. And the new Road and Track has a road test of an M6 Grand Coupe with a manual six-speed. It is a half-second slower to sixty than the dual-clutch, but I am beyond the point of caring about that kind of difference in real world applications.

nderwater UberDork
Aug. 22, 2013 9:01 a.m.
mad_machine wrote: BMW tried this with the M5. Enough resistance and they will cave to the "whims" of the Americans again. In their mind the auto is better as it is faster, can hold more power, is not as easily abused as a manual, and is less work to use. All wins in their book

The SMG in the M5 was not a very refined experience. Newer DSG transmissions have had much more acceptance in the marketplace.

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