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Login to post Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Thoughts on this Miata build

Jan. 27, 2012 7:57 a.m. Klayfish HalfDork

As I poke around Ebay and CL, looking for a fun toy, I came across this NA Miata on Ebay. It's local to me, so I'm going to go take a look at it. My previous experiences with Miatas are of the stock variety, not modified.

What do you think of the mechanical part of this build?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Turbocharged-Hardtop-Included-/150742864007?pt=US_C...

Anyone have experiences with the springs/shocks on the car, or the turbo? Are these parts that will work well together?

I asked on the Miata forum about it and am getting a lot of good feedback on questions about how the ad was written (how much power it makes, if it's been raced....). I've asked the seller about some of that stuff, and will ask more when I go to check the car out. They didn't build the car up, so they're not going from first hand knowledge. But if I have a comfort level with that stuff, my biggest questions are in its' mechanicals.

Any thoughts you have on the build side would be great. I've looked at a lot of stock Miata's, but I just can't help looking at these. I like cars like this.
Jan. 27, 2012 8:14 a.m. jstein77 Dork

That looks really sweet. My only two concerns are: 1) Jiving this statement - "This car has not been tracked or raced to our knowledge..." - with the fact that it has yellow tape at the top of the steering wheel.

2) There are some apparent hood/bumper misalignments in this photo: I would check the front end carefully for hidden damage.

Other than that, it looks like a fantastically fun track toy.
Jan. 27, 2012 8:15 a.m. MG Bryan HalfDork

I like it. I would have stuck with the 5 speed.
Jan. 27, 2012 8:21 a.m. nderwater SuperDork

Looks like a cool car. The biggest issue in cases like these is that you never really know what you're getting: why is it being sold by a shop, not the owner? who made the mods? why is it being sold?

Worst case scenario - if you buy it and the engine blows up on the way home, you could make your money back pretty easily by parting it out. The hard top alone is worth 1/4 of the current asking price, and the aftermarket wheels, seats, steering wheel, body and turbo pieces are always in demand. At the current price, I'd say it's a pretty low risk purchase.
Jan. 27, 2012 8:22 a.m. BoxheadTim SuperDork

200bhp on the stock ECU (what are they doing for the additional fuel and how do they control timing under boost?) at 5-6psi sounds wrong unless they're doing something that's going to grenade the engine in short order. Realistically I would guess it's probably making around 140-150bhp.

The engine bay looks a bit like a dog's breakfast to me, if that's a pro shop they should have made it a little more tidy IMHO. Plus the undertray is missing, which might affect airflow through the radiatior and under the car.

Oh, and I've never heard of a "Recaro Sprint" seat and the seats in the car don't look like Recaros to me.

I'd have a very close look at the quality of the installation - the turbo NA I had in the UK that was put together by a "forum expert" (oxymoron alert!) was suffering from "interesting" build quality, like Intercooler piping from the local plumbing shop and fund stuff like that, topped with a knock-off Chinese turbo. Needless to say, hoses popped off under boost left, right and center and the turbo started blowing blue smoke halfway through the trackday I took the car to...
Jan. 27, 2012 8:38 a.m. 92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork

jstein77 wrote:

That looks really sweet. My only two concerns are: 1) Jiving this statement - "This car has not been tracked or raced to our knowledge..." - with the fact that it has yellow tape at the top of the steering wheel.

2) There are some apparent hood/bumper misalignments in this photo: I would check the front end carefully for hidden damage.

Other than that, it looks like a fantastically fun track toy.

That yellow section of the wheel is there from the factory. Aftermarket wheel.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear it's making 200hp. To the crank. FMU + BTM, you could do that. 150-160whp sounds right.

I wouldn't shy away from this car... but i also probably wouldn't pay more than $3k for it.
Jan. 27, 2012 8:40 a.m. Keith SuperDork

Everything on that car is the cheap option as opposed to the good option. Right down to the repair manual that comes with the car!

I'd say the 140 rwhp estimate is fairly accurate. The stock ECU isn't a problem as long as something's been done to manage fuel, at that level a timing controller is mostly a "nice to have" instead of a "must have". Looks as if there's a cheapo fuel pressure regulator in there, which means that unless the fuel pump has been replaced it's on its way out.

Note that the ad says "BEGi turbo system" but it's a GReddy elsewhere in the text. Looks like one in the underhood shot too. Greddy systems have a tendency to crack the manifold, and you cannot get replacements. It's always sad when someone calls up for that, because there's a domino effect that basically scraps the complete setup. GReddys didn't come with an intercooler, so that setup could be a little sketchy. It's possible it's a BEGi intercooler (get a photo of it, I'll be able to tell) but the older ICs they used to use were not terribly efficient or well thought out.

Not a great suspension. It sits too low, it'll be rough as hell and the damping of the AGX tends towards the harsh.

A 6 speed with the stock 1.6 rear is one short gearing set. 2nd gear redline won't even hit 50 mph and you'll be over 4000 rpm at 75 mph. Not my first choice.

It hasn't been raced. Maybe little fantasy races on the street, but if you're worried about track use it's not built for that. The yellow tape on the wheel is as much about function as the race seats with stock belts are. It also doesn't have any rollover protection. They're probably Sparco Sprint seats.

I wouldn't pay extra for the modifications on this car. Heck, they might be a liability.

Right now, it's teetering at the top of its value to me. You can do better.
Jan. 27, 2012 8:44 a.m. Klayfish HalfDork

The yellow tape on the top of the wheel made me raise an eyebrow regarding the "never raced" claim. And I did see the bumper fit issues, the rear bumper is also hanging down a bit.

What they're telling me is that someone who works for the shop wanted the car. So the shop owners bought it and shipped it here. But the kid can't afford it. So they didn't do the build. So they're hp number was just a wild guess, which I agree is wrong. They say they have a stack of receipts they got with the car dating back 8 years, which show the parts used in the build. I like what I see, but I want to be cautious and not get into a realy bad situation.

EDIT: This is why I love this forum. Thanks for the detailed thoughts Keith. Like I said, I've been looking at a lot of stock Miatas, but these always draw my eye. I asked them about a cash sale, and they have hinted that $3500 would buy it.
Jan. 27, 2012 9:45 a.m. failboat HalfDork

my NA miata was a modified 1.6, that I bought already modified. Dont get me wrong, I loved the car for the years that I had it. Great first "fun" car that I pretty much just bought and drove without having to turn the wrenches myself.

However, If I go the NA route again, I am definately going to look long and hard for a clean, stock example to start with.

IMO I think $3500 for that one is too much.
Jan. 27, 2012 10:16 a.m. ditchdigger Dork

jstein77 wrote:

Do those ugly turn signal vents serve any real purpose other than bringing cool air to the headlamps?

They seem to be the first mod any kid around here does to his NA so I am guessing they are really cheap. I get so used to seeing those ugly black chinese plastic things that whenever I see see stock turns I am like "Why is this miata so nice looking?"
Jan. 27, 2012 10:17 a.m. Keith SuperDork

I told Klayfish about this by email, but I figured I'd share.

My 1990 was modified when I bought it. Basically, it was the full Miata Club of America spec - pretty much everything that Moss sold Tokico Handling Package, JR sway bars, JR exhaust and cat, Fidanza flywheel, JR supercharger with random mysterious black boxes, big boost kit, etc.

In the process of trying to make the car work to my satisfaction, I replaced the springs, the bumpstops, the exhaust, the flywheel, the engine management bits and eventually pulled the supercharger and replaced it with an FM turbo. The car works really well now, but pretty much every modification it had when I bought it got pulled off. I really did try to make it work with the existing parts because I was footing the bill for this - I spent a bunch of time working on that blower to get it to stop throwing belts and to try to get it to idle.

The car went from a terrible ride and nasty handling to excellent all-road compliance and consistent handling, from a poor idling car with driveability quirks to one that purrs like stock but makes more power than before. And all of the parts I put on cost about the same as the ones I took off, that's the sad part.

Oh yes, and it took me several years to find all the wiring damage caused by the alarm installation. Eventually I discovered the main power line to the starter had about 4 splices in 6" of wire.
Jan. 27, 2012 10:20 a.m. Keith SuperDork

ditchdigger wrote:

jstein77 wrote:

Do those ugly turn signal vents serve any real purpose other than bringing cool air to the headlamps?

They seem to be the first mod any kid around here does to his NA so I am guessing they are really cheap. I get so used to seeing those ugly black chinese plastic things that whenever I see see stock turns I am like "Why is this miata so nice looking?"

If you have an air intake right behind the headlight like the FM II turbos, one side feeds cold air to the intake. It does make a significant difference. But 90% of them are aesthetic.

This one is not - it's feeding cold air into the V8
Jan. 27, 2012 10:21 a.m. nderwater SuperDork

Keith - Were any of those mods state-of-the-art at the time the were installed by the PO though? The Miata aftermarket has come a long way, and there is a lot more tuning experience now than there was in the early days.
Jan. 27, 2012 10:39 a.m. Keith SuperDork

I don't know exactly when the SC was installed. It hasn't been "state of the art" for a couple of decades - it was cool when Downing/Atlanta designed it in 1990 or so, but there was no further development worth speaking of for a long time.

But every single part I took off that car was still on the market, new, when I removed it. And all the parts I put on have been on the Miata market for at least 5 years by this point. So if you were looking at a used Miata today, it could have either parts suite. My point is that you want to look at what the car has on it, right now, and evaluate accordingly. An older setup from a company that's gone under such as a GReddy turbo kit is not going to be as good to live with as one that can be maintained, repaired and upgraded from a company that's still in business and making compatible parts.
Jan. 27, 2012 12:37 p.m. ZOO SuperDork

We had an early BeGI kit on my wife's 1.6 NA. To be honest, it didn't feel that much more powerful than the 1.8 swap I did in mine. When the SC seized, we removed the kit -- and honestly I don't think we compromised the enjoyment factor of the car in any way, shape, or form.

If I wanted a forced induction Miata, I'd look for a good FM car, or buy the best NA Miata I could find and then call FM. Remember, too that suspension, wheel, and brake upgrades with the stock power level makes for an extremeley reliable and entertaining track and autocross toy.
Jan. 27, 2012 2:17 p.m. belteshazzar SuperDork

i would buy that car SPECIFICALLY to sell all the 'upgrades' so that in the end i had a cheap stock miata and go from there.

which front bumper cover is that?
Jan. 27, 2012 2:25 p.m. Keith SuperDork

Racing Beat Type 1.
Jan. 27, 2012 2:31 p.m. belteshazzar SuperDork

my favorite thing on the car

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