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Dec. 17, 2008 12:56 p.m. Salanis SuperDork

For those interested, today is the last day to register for the Full-Track Drift event, being hosted by ThunderDrift. The event will be this Saturday, with an amateur competition taking place on Sunday.

$200 gets you 5 sessions and an instructor. This will be a very beginner friendly event. They are also having a "grip" run group.

You can get more details and register at www.ThunderDrift.com

Or, e-mail and/or send PayPal fees to Geoff: info@thunderdrift.com

Would love to see some of you out for this. The success (or failure) of this event will likely determine the future of this format at Thunderhill

-Cameron
Dec. 17, 2008 4:21 p.m. subrew New Reader

Unfortunately, my FV doesn't have enough power to drift on any single corner at Thunderhill!

Chris H. -looking forward my first event on Feb 13th.
Dec. 17, 2008 4:31 p.m. Salanis SuperDork

subrew wrote:

Unfortunately, my FV doesn't have enough power to drift on any single corner at Thunderhill!

Chris H. -looking forward my first event on Feb 13th.

You'd be amazed at how little power you can drift with. And you can always drive the "grip" session and go for ride-alongs, or just be vastly entertained, during other sessions.

So... Feb 13, huh...

Holy Wow! You'll be running with ARC/NCRC, and I just saw how inexpensive a track day with them is. I may need to sign up for that event.
Dec. 17, 2008 5:06 p.m. kreb Dork

Y'know, I kinda wish I still had my Stalker for this event. I once did a countinuous drift through turns 14 and 15. Of course that was a lousy way to score a fast lap, but it sure was fuuuuuuun!
Dec. 20, 2008 9:43 p.m. Salanis SuperDork

Well, I did the full track drift today. Damn that was fun. And it looks like there's a good chance of this becoming a more regular occurrence.

It was like an HPDE with minimum rules, so you could just goof around and throw the car sideways whenever you wanted to. Way too much fun.

The only disadvantages were that a couple of turns got covered in dirt and pebbles (for some reason, the exit to turn 6 was horrible), and the vast majority of participants had not done open track before, and do not understand the etiquette. People didn't wave to the flaggers on the checkered lap. They didn't pull off-line when exiting the track. And they didn't put a hand up to signal when they were doing something unusual. That last on was pretty big because it would have been really handy because there were lots of spinouts, and that's really the only way to know something was going on up ahead.

I was doing pretty well by the end of the day. Trying to drift at speed in a Miata is tough. At speed, the lack of horsepower is more apparent, and clutch kicked doesn't do much. I got good at feinting and just using momentum to drift around corners. Yes, the Miata is still a Miata, which is a momentum car.

I managed to get the hang of a number of turns really well. Of course, I looked really good in comparison to the drifters, because most of them didn't know how to follow a proper line around the track. I'd follow two of them through a turn... one would initiate from the middle of the track and screw up... the other would arc around the outside of the turn... and I'd squeel my tires, nail the apex with my inside front tire, and exit with more speed than either of them.

I was also pleased with one of my spinouts. I managed to keep with it, and do turn it into a 360, and keep moving. My girlfriend said it was cool to watch, and she wished she'd ridden with me on that lap.

Damn, that was a lot of fun!
Dec. 20, 2008 11:19 p.m. Black Stig Reader

Sounds like someone's trying to play keep up with Stiggy, LMAO!

Just kidding bro, I'm glad to hear you had good times man, that's whats up! Keep it up!

-Dave
Dec. 21, 2008 12:59 p.m. Salanis SuperDork

Black Stig wrote:

Sounds like someone's trying to play keep up with Stiggy, LMAO!

Just kidding bro, I'm glad to hear you had good times man, that's whats up! Keep it up!

Yeah, no way I'm going to keep up with you on the drifting. Isn't your goal to hit a drift event at least once a month? I'll probably only get 3-5 this next year. My interests are aimed more at open track. Still, it is a ton of fun.

I do think most drifters would gain a ton of valuable experience by doing more "grip" driving. And I learn plenty from drifting that I can transfer over to open lapping. I was very happy to see how badly I could get the car unsettled, and be able to let the car sort itself out, and not spin or fly off the track. (For those familiar with T-Hill, this happened several times throwing it around aggressively at turn 1; the car sometimes wouldn't be able to hold the drift, and would start to fishtail right about at the apex, and would be back under control by the track-out point.)
Dec. 21, 2008 4:41 p.m. Capt Slow Reader

Did they use the bypass for turn 5 ? Or were people trying to drift around that too?

Were there a lot of offs at turn 9 (IIRC turn 9 is the one with the second crest in it)
Dec. 21, 2008 4:58 p.m. Salanis SuperDork

Capt Slow wrote:

Did they use the bypass for turn 5 ? Or were people trying to drift around that too?

Were there a lot of offs at turn 9 (IIRC turn 9 is the one with the second crest in it)

Nope. We went over the top of 5. That was a really fun turn to drift. Throw it sideways before you hit the crest, if you do it right, you'll transition just a bit past the apex and arc all the way down the hill. I only managed the second part once. Mostly I just drifted the first half, and got a little wiggle before gliding down the hill like normal. There were quite a few spins just on the backside of 5 though.

Actually, I don't think there were too many offs at 9. That was actually pretty easy to hit. You drift entering 9, before the crest, and take the back strait like normal... or Manji down the hill, which I didn't do.

Most offs were at 6, 11/12, and 14. Lots of spins at the back of 5.

Most of my offs were at 11/12. I had one at 14 and one at 10. I'd been taking 10 in 2nd gear, and right at the limiter coming out of the turn. So I tried to take it in 3rd and just plowed.
Dec. 21, 2008 11:26 p.m. Black Stig Reader

In reply to Salanis:

You're absolutely right, I plan on doing more track days here coming up. As in actual grip racing track days. I can't wait for 2009 and while drifting will be my primary focus as always (you're correct again, trying to get at least one event per month), but I'll definitely do some grip.

I hate to say it, and the GRM guys will want to lynch me for it, but I can't do autocross. There just aren't enough runs, there isn't enough seat time. I can't justify the money to put into an event (entry, gas, travel, parts, other expenses) to drive 3-6 runs and be done. Lets see, I was slow this year so my laps averaged from 62-87 (spinout) seconds. If you drive as slowly as I do you're talking about 6-10 minutes of run time? Seriously? No thank you, LOL! I'll take a 4-8 hour track day or 6-8 hours of drifting over that . . any day!

-Dave
Dec. 22, 2008 12:36 a.m. Salanis SuperDork

Black Stig wrote:

I hate to say it, and the GRM guys will want to lynch me for it, but I can't do autocross. There just aren't enough runs, there isn't enough seat time. I can't justify the money to put into an event (entry, gas, travel, parts, other expenses) to drive 3-6 runs and be done. Lets see, I was slow this year so my laps averaged from 62-87 (spinout) seconds. If you drive as slowly as I do you're talking about 6-10 minutes of run time? Seriously? No thank you, LOL! I'll take a 4-8 hour track day or 6-8 hours of drifting over that . . any day!

I completely empathize. I can't do SCCA events, for that reason. I do like the Porsche club though. But with them I get 6-8 runs of 2-3 laps. So, roughly 15minutes of run time for $30.

Track days and drifting aren't 4-8 hours. Most track days are more like 90 minutes. Although, when you get faster, you get more laps for the same money. I figure most track days are $150-$200. So that cost/time isn't too different. I still see track days as a better value. Actually, my favorite group to run with, I can get double track time, so 3hours for $160. Best deal around.

The skid pad drift days are $100. I'm not sure how much drive time I get though.

With track days and drift, I also get to ride along with great drivers in cool cars (which increases the value) and have my girlfriend ride along with me, for no extra charge. So that improves the value too. And I don't have to pick up cones.
Dec. 22, 2008 1:52 a.m. Black Stig Reader

I guess we do things a tad different here, LOL! I feel lucky now, HAHAHA! When we have drift days here, we usually start driving around 9AM and continue on until around 7 or 8PM. The average driver gets 25-30 runs and the fanatical ones get between 35 and 80 depending. Our drift days range from 60 to 90 dollars and our private days can go from 120 to 200 depending on the venue and the driver cap.

I honestly don't know how track days are held, I would love to get a chance to do one so I can experience it, I'm all about getting some crazy seat time and I'm very excited to kick off 2009 . . . .

-Dave
Dec. 22, 2008 10:38 a.m. Salanis SuperDork

Black Stig wrote:

I guess we do things a tad different here, LOL! I feel lucky now, HAHAHA! When we have drift days here, we usually start driving around 9AM and continue on until around 7 or 8PM. The average driver gets 25-30 runs and the fanatical ones get between 35 and 80 depending. Our drift days range from 60 to 90 dollars and our private days can go from 120 to 200 depending on the venue and the driver cap.

I honestly don't know how track days are held, I would love to get a chance to do one so I can experience it, I'm all about getting some crazy seat time and I'm very excited to kick off 2009 . . . .

Holy carp! I wish we got that much time. The only regular venue for drifting is the Thunderhill skidpad. $100, a day generally goes from about 9-5. The event is run with two run groups, and people take turns. I'm not sure if there is a driver cap. So how much time you get depends a lot on the number of people there.

Most track days you generally get 4-5 sessions, 20-30minutes each. If you haven't gotten out to an HPDE yet, you really need to.

Edit: Actually the drift events end up being a pretty good deal. Usually 4-6 sessions, and getting at least 5 runs in each, probably about 2-3 minutes per run. So, 20-30 runs and a solid hour of drive time.
Dec. 22, 2008 2:04 p.m. Salanis SuperDork

There was a photographer there. He has started posting photos on his website. Here's what he got of me: http://www.tomwallis.shutterbugstorefront.com/g/d16

Doesn't look like any good pics of me drifting. I only have slip angle in one of these, and I'm about to spin out.
Dec. 22, 2008 5:56 p.m. kreb Dork

Am I the only one who finds this all a bit scary? A bunch of guys - most with no HPDE experience playing at drifting around Thunderhill. How fast were they going into turn one? That's a white-knuckles-I-dare-you-to-lift turn where I don't care to think about newbies pitching it sideways on purpose. Was there any carnage? How firm were the organizers on rules and proticol? NASA West is always very strict, and any asshattery is cause for ejection. How was order maintained?

edit: I'm not trying to dis you guys. It sounds like fun, and the serious drifters that I've met aren't generally loose cannons, but the potential for trouble would seem to be there...
Dec. 22, 2008 6:21 p.m. Salanis SuperDork

I believe the worst incident was an off at turn 3. Person came in too hot and managed to hit the tire barrier at the flagging tower. I heard it messed up his nice body kit. No other carnage.

People were not going anywhere near HPDE speeds on most turns. I was coming into turn 1 at about 5-6k in 3rd; and I was coming in hotter than most people because I needed the momentum, and actually could hit a fast apex. A lot of people never bothered to grab 4th.

To give you an idea, 3, 4, 5, 10, 11, 12, 14, and 15 were all done in 2nd. 1 and 8 were done in 3rd.

Plus, there was a lot more spacing. There were fewer people, and you weren't pushing for speed, so you'd just lift and leave a bunch of room if you were coming up on someone.

They did need to learn some track day etiquette, like going off line down the back strait when exiting the turn, and putting a hand up to signal when something was amiss.

There were quite a few talking-to's for infractions. Most of these were for breaking the "no drifting on the checkered lap" rule. I don't know how serious these were, since I didn't get one.

Yeah, drifters are a bit more wild, but I actually felt safer at this event than at a lot of others that I've been too. There was no sort of risky passing (no Evo drivers stealing my Apex at 9). There was lots of separation between cars.