I am thinking of buying a TIG or MIG welder for a locost build or other minor fab work.
for TIG i was thinking http://www.htpweld.com/products/tig_welders/tig130.html
and MIG maybe http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/millermatic_140_autoset/
Should I look for a used welder instead?
Thanks, Jim
If you can find what you want in used, go for it. For me, the price difference was minimal, so I got a new machine.
TIG is prettier, and potentially stronger. Easier to be precise. The downside is it's slow.
MIG is lightspeed compared to TIG. Good MIG joints are still plenty strong. Difficult to be precise though since wire speed, heat, and feed rate are all intertwined.
I'm no expert, but I seem to recall that a MIG weld is more brittle than a TIG weld. Thus, TIG may be better for things that will be subject to vibration (ie exhaust pipes).
If you watch the hot rod and custom bike shows, most of the guys use MIG to tack it and TIG to finish it.
I bought a Lincoln MIG welder and love it. Paid $625 years ago inlcuiding a gas bottle, but you can get it cheaper now.
When asked what type of welding is ideal for a particular situation, my welding instructor often replies with, "What process are you most comfortable with, and where are your skills the strongest? That's the best process to use."
TIG is nice for the ability to do aluminum, but for minor fab work, it is tough to beat the simplicity and ease of MIG. YMMV. :nice:
For reference, TIG and MIG can both do aluminum, but most MIG machines require a spool gun to do aluminum as the wire doesn't like being pushed through the feed tube like steel can do.
I prefer MIG due to the ease of use. TIG is awesome for pretty stuff, I don't typically have the patience for it as 99.9% of my welding doesn't have any aesthetic importance and MIG is strong enough. If I had to buy just one machine, I'd use MIG, but it totally depends on what you want to do with it and what you prefer to use.
Bryce
Yeah...I should have specified that TIG is nice for the ability to do aluminum without getting frustrated and cursing and swearing at the stupid spool gun. :nice:
A well done weld on the same material with tig or mig should have the same strength. Brittle welds are poorly done welds no matter what the process. Nick Former metal fusion technician
We have a MIG and want to add a TIG....
one hand use with the mig as well. key for body work.
Yeah, the ability to hold parts in place with one hand and tack with the other is a big plus with MIG. I learned to TIG recently for my header project, and I really like it. It's fun. And slow. But I think you have a much better idea of what the metal is doing.
It's also hard to tig lying down so if you're going to be doing anything under the car, a mig makes lifwe much easier.
Wally wrote: It's also hard to tig lying down so if you're going to be doing anything under the car, a mig makes lifwe much easier.
You mean you're not coordinated enough to manipulate the pedal with your ass cheek?
I built a Locost frame and it is a LOT of welding even with MIG, would take much longer with TIG...though the welds would be much prettier:grin: I'd get a 230V MIG if possible, a 120V machine will work on the Locost frame but will limit you on other projects....I've ended up using mine for all sorts of things that required more power than a 120V MIG will deliver. Also FWIW bought a Miller MIG and am very happy with it, trouble free after several years.
Also, if you're biasing toward TIG because it can do aluminum, you need to be thinking about A-C. A DC machine CAN do aluminum, but if you're asking the question you're not that good.
Also understand that the two machines opeate on fundemntally different priciples (Constant Voltage or Constant Current)
You mean you're not coordinated enough to manipulate the pedal with your ass cheek?
I could have lived without that mental image.
Thanks for all the input I have been leaning towards a MIG welder for the ease of use. It has been about 10 years since i have touched a welder so i think it would be a good way to get back into welding. I am leaning towards the millermatic 180 because of the higher voltage. and upgradability to an aluminum spool.
Is there a flux core MIG wire for alu? I know it would be ugly but welded and running / fixed and ugly sure beats broken and waiting to make it pretty.
BTW I got a used Lincoln 3800 (similar to the 135 just sold by home depot) and it has been great. Having the ability to bring the welder to your work has been a huge plus.
Yes 208 with gas is great for the shop but for around the house and out in the driveway with the part still on the car having the ability to just pick up my unit and carry it to the car and run an extension cord (heavy duty of course) has been great. To date there has not been anything that I have not been able to weld. I also think hat Lincoln underrates there units and I have welded 1/4" plate on a single pass with out any issues with alot of wire speed and heat still available. Just get the sizzling bacon sound going and you are off to the races
A mig would be most benefitial. It is a B#$% trying to tack things up with a Tig. You need two hands to control events.Then if you are using a foot pedal (as opposed to a finger control) you need your foot. My suggestion would be to get a Mig then Tig Tig welds can be works of art. I especially love aluminum tig welds. Super control
Once you have both, use Mig for tacking and Tig for welding things up My 2 cents = adusted for gas prices = $4.00
Forgot to mention If you are cheap you can run down to HDepot and get flux core for you Mig I do more flux stuff now. Mucho clean up though. Lots of splattering slag. But if you have time, can make good welds. Practice and patience Padwan
My experience is that almost every project starts with a MIG, even if it doesn't end up there.
For example, the new car trailer I'm building will be entirely tacked together with my Hobart 120V MIG welder but I expect to do the majority of the strength-required welding with my trusty Lincoln 220V stick welder. Similarly, the sheet metal intake manifold I'm building was entirely tacked together with the MIG, but it's being finish welded with the TIG welder.
The Locost frame, on the other hand, is right in the fat power range where the best all-around welder is the MIG for the entire project. Same goes for exhaust and body work.
If you only have one welder, the MIG with a bottle of gas is the way to go. It'll be enough power to get any project aligned and tacked enough to either work or safely transport to somewhere where there is a bigger unit, and it'll adjust down fine enough to take care of most everything at home.
If you can only buy one - the MIG is more useful IMO, easier to get 90% of the work done faster... incapable of the last 10% but 2/3 less $ for 90% effective is pretty good.
You won't find anyone who will say the finished product is prettier but you need $2k min. to get a good TIG and a whole lot more skill to make it work for you... and the pedal thing sucks for taking the machine to the work.
I TIG everything. I once borrowed a friends MIG to do some floorboards and I just didn't like it. I have had classes in both and just prefer the quality and look of TIG. Granted, it is harder, but once you get the hang of it stuff usually turns out much nicer.
I would have to say that the time it takes to become a really good MIG welder (beads that look good, proper penetration, wire feed, etc.) is about the same amount of time it takes to become a good TIG welder.
For odd position stuff you just have to learn to push the pedal with your other foot, elbow, knee, ass cheek, shoulder, head, the list goes on. Hell, I have even had other people push the pedal for me in really hard to reach places!
I like the convenience of MIG, I can wriggle into some crazy spots and weld away. I've never TIGed but I'd like to learn.
AFAIK there's no flux core aluminum available. Man, it would be nice if there was.
I think Lincoln underrates their units too, I can set my 110v MIG PAK on 'D' (highest setting) and burn through 3/16" if I'm not careful. Penetration on .134 wall tubing is great, it goes all the way through on 'C' setting and on 'D' it's possible to burn the tubing away if I don't move fast enough. I have welded a 1/4" plate tractor steering box bracket by beveling and filling, that was more for cosmetics than anything else.
Anybody else get a mental image of Wally with an Ace Ventura talking butt? :omg:
Jensenman wrote: I l Anybody else get a mental image of Wally with an Ace Ventura talking butt? :omg:
the one I dread is the Borak swimsuit.....
Eldukerino wrote: I TIG everything. I once borrowed a friends MIG to do some floorboards and I just didn't like it. I have had classes in both and just prefer the quality and look of TIG. Granted, it is harder, but once you get the hang of it stuff usually turns out much nicer. I would have to say that the time it takes to become a really good MIG welder (beads that look good, proper penetration, wire feed, etc.) is about the same amount of time it takes to become a good TIG welder. For odd position stuff you just have to learn to push the pedal with your other foot, elbow, knee, ass cheek, shoulder, head, the list goes on. Hell, I have even had other people push the pedal for me in really hard to reach places!
+1 If you know how to tig, it's easy to make good looking, strong welds. When I'm welding something, I'm not concerned with speed, I'm concerned with the quality of the weld. Stick and tig is all you need. Mig is OK if you're into production welds or tacking .
I've tigged three locost frames. I love to tig, but mig is the overall better choice for general fab.
That said, if I only had one, it would be the tig. (tig machines almost always are stick machines too, BTW)
The tig you linked to is DC only, and you won't be doing aluminum with DC. Also, make sure it comes with a foot pedal and High Frequency start.
-James
Again, another vote for a MIG first. It's bloody easy and very versatile. I bought my Miller 175 about 5 years ago, got a close friend who's a retired navy welder to teach me "the basics" and I've been going to town ever since. Because I also wanted to do aluminum and get into TIG, I picked up a barely used Miller EconoTIG for $700 and have started doing some interesting projects with that as well. The only drawback of the EconoTIG is it doesn't have as fine control at the lower settings to do really small aluminum as well as a bigger unit like a Syncrowave.
The right person with the right training and experience using the right MIG machine can make very nice welds that look nearly as good as a TIG.
If I could only have one machine it would be a 220v MIG.
People complain about the availability of 220v when they "travel" to the work, but I've never had any problems. I've built 4 plug adapters that allow me to plug into just about every kind of 220v outlet I've encountered while "on the go" with my Miller 175 as well as a 20' extension cable made out of very heavy gauge wire.
