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Login to post Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Tim Suddard's Articles = uncool

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Dec. 9, 2008 12:57 a.m. Vito82 None

I've been a fan of the magazine for a while, and I do enjoy it usually, although lately I must admit I've been finding some issues hit or miss.

My chief complaint about the magazine would have to be Tim Suddard's recent articles where he brags about his brand new BMW 335i.

I mean BMWs in Grassroots Motorsports magazine can be viewed as being iffy, but acceptable considering you know, 2002 tii, E36, E30, and the like.

But a guy who gets rich off of our subscription money, and then rubs our faces in his brand new BMW is just not cool. His rather boring Starting Line columns where he praises his own leadership and business skills are nauseating, and it just seems like he's trying to make us feel that he earned this car of his that he praises just as much as he praises himself.

I mean fine own the magazine, earn some money, buy a cool car! Maybe he does deserve it, it is a good magazine. But making a car that clearly does not fit into the scope of the magazine a Project Car?? WTF is up with that??, other than an obvious tax write-off. And then go on about how a 42 thousand dollar car is just as good as a 57 grand M3 with some tweaks, is that REALLY making you square with your Grassroots readers Tim? Oh and bragging about how his the trackdays he goes to "attract some more upscale cars"

Sounds more than a little douchey to me.
Dec. 9, 2008 1:05 a.m. mtn Dork

What is the definition of grassroots? There is no definite one. But I think that making a car as good as one that costs $15,000 more is a good start. So while it may be out of our price ranges, it someday will be within them. And big deal if it doesn't fit into the scope of the magazine, they have a ton of others that do. http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/project-cars/

And you have a kinda funny sense of bragging. I'd call it good writing, but whatever.

They make a wide range of grassroots here. Some if it isn't grassroots to you, but to a lot of the readership it is. And for those that its not, then go to the cheap cars they have.

You seem a little douchey to me.

And you do realize that Margie and Tim frequent this board?
Dec. 9, 2008 1:08 a.m. byron12 New Reader

In tim suddards defense I went to a targa sixty six track day once there were famous people and really rich people there who had some some seriously badass machinery ie vintage race cars with storied racing histories driven by true legends of motorsport. I will admit that I found the 335i article boring personally since I won't be owning one of those ever I am sure some readers can afford that car and will enjoy the editorial. As for Suddard dserving the car he certainly does as there is no other magazine that even compares to awesomeness tht GRM is for me and there is still much more editorial in my demograhic than there are brand new beemers. Thanks to GRM I am totally dumbfounded as to whether I want a civic/crx, miata, mr2, c4 vette, or start building my own locost that sometimes I fear my head may explode and it certainly pisses off my wife as she listens to me bla bla about this huge decision.
Dec. 9, 2008 1:12 a.m. joey48442 Dork

Hey! Toolbox! A 335i IS grassroots, compared to a new Ferrari!

Its all relative.

Joey
Dec. 9, 2008 1:15 a.m. mtn Dork

byron12 wrote:

In tim suddards defense I went to a targa sixty six track day once there were famous people and really rich people there who had some some seriously badass machinery ie vintage race cars with storied racing histories driven by true legends of motorsport. I will admit that I found the 335i article boring personally since I won't be owning one of those ever I am sure some readers can afford that car and will enjoy the editorial. As for Suddard dserving the car he certainly does as there is no other magazine that even compares to awesomeness tht GRM is for me and there is still much more editorial in my demograhic than there are brand new beemers. Thanks to GRM I am totally dumbfounded as to whether I want a civic/crx, miata, mr2, c4 vette, or start building my own locost that sometimes I fear my head may explode and it certainly pisses off my wife as she listens to me bla bla about this huge decision.

Miata. Answer is always miata. If not then E30....

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/grm-top-10/5539/page1/
Dec. 9, 2008 1:19 a.m. byron12 New Reader

mtn wrote:

byron12 wrote:

In tim suddards defense I went to a targa sixty six track day once there were famous people and really rich people there who had some some seriously badass machinery ie vintage race cars with storied racing histories driven by true legends of motorsport. I will admit that I found the 335i article boring personally since I won't be owning one of those ever I am sure some readers can afford that car and will enjoy the editorial. As for Suddard dserving the car he certainly does as there is no other magazine that even compares to awesomeness tht GRM is for me and there is still much more editorial in my demograhic than there are brand new beemers. Thanks to GRM I am totally dumbfounded as to whether I want a civic/crx, miata, mr2, c4 vette, or start building my own locost that sometimes I fear my head may explode and it certainly pisses off my wife as she listens to me bla bla about this huge decision.

Miata. Answer is always miata. If not then E30....

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/grm-top-10/5539/page1/

I already had an e30; miata is the answer I will have one soon I was just waiting until I actually had one so I could post the I bought a miata thread. I have wanted a miata foreever and I have done the civic, e30m etc I have come full circle and the miata has finally depreiated enough and I will have one soon.
Dec. 9, 2008 1:43 a.m. Keith UltraDork

"Grassroots" is relative, and if you ever get Tim going on this you'll be treated to a well-thought-out analysis of what "Grassroots" is. It's not necessarily about racing on second-hand tires in a car you got for free. It's about doing what you have to do to race, whether that means running your daily driver or spending all night wrenching on a old mutant car you put together for under $2000. And if you're trying to make your BMW 3-series run as hard as an M3 that costs 30% more, I don't see the problem with that.

Don't like the BMW project car? How about an 80's CRX? Yeah, the magazine has one of those too. And a Neon. And about 10 Miatas. And a Spec E30. And a freakin' 31-year-old Saab being used as a rally car.

Many people equate the GRM Challenge with Grassroots, and take their definition of the magazine and concept from there. Especially those on the forum. But remember that GRM also runs the Ultimate Track Car Challenge, and that's a very different group of cars. Still cool cars, still appropriate for the magazine, but different.
Dec. 9, 2008 5:41 a.m. Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director

Actually, the 335i is on loan from BMW and is being used as a track day car by all of the staff and yes, the goal is to make it keep up with a new M3 for less money—in an "executive grassroots fashion"

As for Tim 'deserving' it. That's not really a part of the decision. Sure, he does, but the entire staff is enjoying the car, working on it and flogging the piss out of it. I drove it last week and dyno'ed a bunch of exhausts...David is driving it this week...

Grassroots does indeed mean different things to different people. I'm the dork with the Saab and the Neon, but damn, I like that 335i too. In retrospect, the 135 would have been a bit cooler and slightly less money, but it's both less practical and not much lighter.

Tim or Margie will probably post a response to this in a few minutes. At 6:40am or so.
Dec. 9, 2008 5:47 a.m. carzan New Reader

I don't know if I consider having a 335i to mean one is scandalously rich, but if he's not already, I HOPE HE GETS FILTHY, STINKIN' RICH!
Dec. 9, 2008 5:49 a.m. bludroptop Dork

Per Schroeder wrote:

Tim or Margie will probably post a response to this in a few minutes. At 6:40am or so.

Hope they don't - no need to mire themselves in this drivel.

I'm loving the 335i and thinking about (fingers crossed) looking for a CPO in the spring. Whereas, the Mustang issue didn't do anything for me - different strokes!

Thanks for trying to appeal to a wide audience.
Dec. 9, 2008 5:53 a.m. Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director

Yea, it's a good car. Driving that and the Tire Rack's test sedans has made Kim and I ponder a 328iT as a good replacement for the MINI.
Dec. 9, 2008 5:56 a.m. Duke Dork

Bitching about a magazine that offers $10 a year subscriptions (on the 10 year plan) for hundreds of pages of great technical content, no-bull reviews of cars and parts, frequent low-cost buildup series, buying guides to used performance cars of all types, driving tips, physics lessons, free classified ads, organization of several different events, pictures of readers' rides, and a free home for the most widely-knowledgeable automotive community on the internet...

= seriously uncool.
Dec. 9, 2008 5:58 a.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

I too hope Tim and most everyone from the mag get filthy stinkin rich!
Dec. 9, 2008 6:04 a.m. ddavidv SuperDork

Tim is a great writer, regardless of subject matter. I always read him first, and in most magazines I turn to the reader's letters right away.

Tim deserves whatever silly car he wants. He's worked hard to get to where he is. Another American dream realized. Though I sometimes think that, yes, he's being wowed a bit too much by some of these press junkets he has not forgotten from where he has come. Just be glad he likes good cars like BMWs and not some oddball Swedish brand with the ignition key in the wrong place.

I'm not a fan of pages wasted on new cars either, but whatever. It helps pay the bills and I can easily ignore them. How many times can you write about 1st gen Miatas or CRX's and still hold reader interest? Maintaining balance can't be easy.

I look forward to Vito's Margie smackdown.
Dec. 9, 2008 6:26 a.m. Jensenman UltimaDork

I gots nothing to add except...

aren't you the same Vito who complained about 'tards'?

'Nuff said.
Dec. 9, 2008 6:29 a.m. bravenrace HalfDork

I might as well put in my worthless babbling opinion. New BMW's, as good as they are, are not why I read GRM. I have other mags for that purpose. And while I don't have a problem with Tim owning one (like it would matter if I did!), I seem to remember reading something that made me think that he purchased a BMW (maybe not this one?). Either way, I personally don't think it fits well with the magazine, but whatever. While I'm babbling, I will add that I would also prefer more in depth budget tech articles on older cars and less race coverage and total restoration articles. Consider this just another point of reference for your decision making. GRM is a great mag, so I'm not really complaining.
Dec. 9, 2008 6:34 a.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

IIRC one of Tims columns did defend his PURCHASE of the car. What gives? Is Tim pretending to own the test cars again? Its OK Tim, were impressed by your achievements without you owning a new BMW.
Dec. 9, 2008 6:35 a.m. John Brown UltimaDork

I guess the Challenge has caused a stigma within the readers.

When I think of "Grassroots Motorsports" I think of GRASSROOTS LEVEL RACING. Autocross, Rallycross, HPDE, even Rally and local circle track. This includes buying new cars and enjoying them in a sporting environment, new cars like the Corvette, the 335i and the Viper. These are grassroots. All of these are and more. Even the "entry level" programs like all of the SCCA and NASA programs are considered grassroots... and we all know there are some big dollar machinery in operation out in those organizations.

When I think of the Challenge I think of an "extended family vacation" where all of the extended family shows up to try to out-do each other with their inginuity and frugality.
Dec. 9, 2008 6:45 a.m. Feedyurhed Reader

Jensenman wrote:

I gots nothing to add except...

.

aren't you the same Vito who complained about 'tards'?

'Nuff said.

Ya there's one in every crowd. You gotta love the internet
Dec. 9, 2008 7:02 a.m. integraguy Reader

The 3 ways I look at this (NON)issue:

Would you prefer Tim singing the "praises" of a Toyota Camry...it's price might be more in line with the grassroots idea, as more readers could purchase one new?

I, as I'm sure other "car nuts" like to read about cars we will never buy new, but may someday own.

Articles in GRM inspire us to get creative with our vehicles, be it a Suzuki Samarai, or a ZX1 Corvette....why exclude ANY car from that source of inspiration, just because it costs $ XXXXX?
Dec. 9, 2008 7:04 a.m. m4ff3w Dork

Vito82 wrote:

I mean BMWs in Grassroots Motorsports magazine can be viewed as being iffyI, but acceptable considering you know, 2002 tii, E36, E30, and the like.

Beyond the point you tried making in your post, this is nearly the single most dumbtarded thing I have ever read on this board.
Dec. 9, 2008 7:12 a.m. GameboyRMH SuperDork

joey48442 wrote:

Hey! Toolbox! A 335i IS grassroots, compared to a new Ferrari!

Its all relative.

Joey

Yep, even a $0.5m Caparo T1 could be considered "grassroots"
Dec. 9, 2008 7:31 a.m. ignorant PowerDork

actually per just gave some ideas about a v6 camry.. He kinda liked it.

as to the OP. If you don't like tims articles, you should go ahead and transfer your subscription to me. I will read your magazines for you and filter out the "bad articles" and forward them.
Dec. 9, 2008 7:44 a.m. MCarp22 New Reader

Keith wrote: Many people equate the GRM Challenge with Grassroots, and take their definition of the magazine and concept from there. Especially those on the forum.

THIS
Dec. 9, 2008 7:48 a.m. Marjorie Suddard General Manager

Sorry--didn't make it for the 6:40 a.m. posting because I'm home sick today. This topic is a wonderful addition to it, BTW.

No smack-down needed, because this guy's just posting the way people routinely talk on the Internet--rudely assuming he knows all the facts and then quickly passing judgment.

I think the other posters have pretty much covered the high points (thanks) as far as what is and is not grassroots and whether that car (a long-term loaner that David is now taking a turn with for the rest of its time here) fits in.

As for Tim being "a guy who gets rich off our subscription money," I'd love to have your information (please provide account numbers if possible) because I'm tired of clipping coupons and pinching pennies to pay my bills.

You probably won't hear from Tim on this because he hasn't been on the board much the past couple weeks. He's been spending all his spare (and non-spare) time taking the GT6 from bare tub to finished roller in the short window between November's SEMA show and December's PRI show because we need it for our booth--and around here, if we need a car, that frequently means Tim builds it. Just part of his poseur douchebaggery.

Margie

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