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Login to post Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Tim Suddard's Articles = uncool

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Dec. 10, 2008 8:55 a.m. bravenrace HalfDork

Marjorie Suddard wrote:

And no car at the end of the loan. Either way, it's far from free. At least what we'd consider free! (Sorry, we're still in a world where $500 a month is a lot to pay to drive a car.) And in our world, where let's face it, most cars ARE free, it'd better earn its keep for the money we're paying. So if Tim's biased in any way on this car, it's not because he sold his soul to BMW--it's because he has to keep the squirrels in his head from chattering about what it's costing him. Like most car owners.

Margie

I understand what you are saying, and $500 a month is a lot of money for me also. But for me it's not really about the money, but what the money represents. I guess what I'm trying to say, and this is my opinion only, is there is a very significant difference between buying a car and using a car. When I buy a NEW car, I've already done my research and evaluataion of that car. So by purchasing it, I'm making a commitment to it and a statement that I think that car was better than others in the same catagory. When you test a car, to a large extent you are trying to determine (admittedly in a lot more depth) what you already know about a car you buy. I know it's not that black and white, but hopefully you get the idea. In my mind, that difference is likely to show in your review of that car, so it would seem best to disclose that in the very beginning. When Tim said he purchased the BMW, it said to me that he thinks very highly of that car. That may or may not be. But in reality he didn't buy it, but is using it over a two year period to evaluate if he will think highly of it, and add parts to improve it. Both are fine, but in my opinion, different.
Dec. 10, 2008 8:58 a.m. poopshovel Dork

I didn't read all six pages, but I'm with Jensenman. The only "Vito" I remember is the Vito who hates tards. FIRE VITO! BRING BACK THE TARDS!
Dec. 10, 2008 9:10 a.m. P71 HalfDork

Greg,

As a fellow RX-7 owner I really hope you can get us some more 1st Gen's in print ;) Loved the VS 240Z article BTW. And what you're doing to register your 79 is epically Grassroots.
Dec. 10, 2008 9:20 a.m. John Brown UltimaDork

Per Schroeder wrote:

That's a good car, but I'm planning on getting my ass kicked in B Modified in 2009.

(and hopefully learn how to build/drive the LeGrand well enough to do better in 2010.) Per

John Brown wrote:

2: 2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP. Per, win Nationals with one... I triple dog dare you.

Kim drives the Solstice as the tow vehicle and Thor runs the MINI...
Dec. 10, 2008 9:20 a.m. Marjorie Suddard General Manager

minimac wrote:

Marjorie Suddard Either way, though, you guys do know there's no way in hell we could afford to own even a fraction of all the cars we drive and write about

Does this mean I have a shot at your Corvair when it comes off the lease?

Hey, I do own that one, and it was a present!

In reality, though, you probably will have a shot at it after it's done as a project car. Sadly, we have to sell the completed ones to buy the next ones. Then again, we're rarely bored.

Margie
Dec. 10, 2008 9:27 a.m. Jensenman UltimaDork

Some time back, there was editorial content which basically came down to: the time window for GRM cars was going to have to move forward. That means that there would be a mix of new and older, as the really old ones dropped off they would become fodder for CMS articles and series. I forget the window size, I want to say it was 15 years.

So yeah there will be some perception that the GRM project cars are more expensive because that's what the general readership's perceptions of those cars was when they were new. When the 318is supercharger article came out, I was a little taken aback because I remember my brother bought one and it was much more expensive than another brother's Maxima. Then I stopped to think about how much time has passed and with it our good friend depreciation.

As far as testing a new car like this 335, as noted earlier the purpose of this car is to see if bolt ons will make it beat an M3. Seems grassrooty to me, just further up the socioeconomic scale and not really different in concept/execution than Per's Neon project.
Dec. 10, 2008 9:38 a.m. DILYSI Dave PowerDork

Jensenman wrote:

Some time back, there was editorial content which basically came down to: the time window for GRM cars was going to have to move forward. That means that there would be a mix of new and older, as the really old ones dropped off they would become fodder for CMS articles and series. I forget the window size, I want to say it was 15 years.

So yeah there will be some perception that the GRM project cars are more expensive because that's what the general readership's perceptions of those cars was when they were new. When the 318is supercharger article came out, I was a little taken aback because I remember my brother bought one and it was much more expensive than another brother's Maxima. Then I stopped to think about how much time has passed and with it our good friend depreciation.

As far as testing a new car like this 335, as noted earlier the purpose of this car is to see if bolt ons will make it beat an M3. Seems grassrooty to me, just further up the socioeconomic scale and not really different in concept/execution than Per's Neon project.

I recall this as well. The only problem with this is that CMS is much more high end in their expectations. While there are old cars in CMS, there are not beaters. I let my CMS subscription run out because of this. While the writing, photography, etc. was definitely up to the caliber we've come to expect, it was obvious to me that they were targeting a different demographic than me.
Dec. 10, 2008 10:00 a.m. Keith UltraDork

Personally, I enjoy what's being done with the project cars more than what the actual car is. Per's rally SAAB is interesting because he's building a rally car and his skills as a rally driver, not because it's an old SAAB. The Bezerkley's appeal has nothing to do with the fact that an old 'glass body is being used over a new car, but with the fact that we're getting a peek into a home-made differential (and I'm sure the magazine will soon have a little more on said differential). And it's being done using the sort of tools and techniques that a skilled amateur has at hand. Creativity, skill and ingenuity is not tied to cost.

To me, grassroots racing is more about a level of dedication and sacrifice. It's racing by people who have to do something else to pay the bills. It can be a ratty $800 Miata that was assembled out of junk parts and running at an autocross with a 16-year-old behind the wheel, or it can be an assault on a World Rally event with a two-year-old car, a second mortgage and a lot of personal financial risk.
Dec. 10, 2008 10:09 a.m. clownkiller New Reader

So when is Tim going to confess he is "The Vito"........
Dec. 10, 2008 10:09 a.m. Jensenman UltimaDork

I continue with CMS even though it has definitely moved upmarket because I just like reading about old cars, even if I can't possibly afford them. I even started the original poopstorm with a smartassed crack about 'Ferraris on the front, Rolexes on the back'.

If anyone here remembers British Car magazine (the forerunner to CMS), it was a much narrower focus than CMS and catered pretty much to the guy who did all his own work etc. I am one of the few that remain of that bunch, most guys my age will pay someone else to feed their Britmobile (or Italian or old Japanese) addiction and understandably Tim etc have gone after them. Had they kept the original formula it would have died quickly. Then I would have had nearly nothing to feed my jones for old import information.

Another angle: when my dad owned a 4 store speed shop chain here in SC, around 1980-81 he watched one of the employees sell a shifter to a guy with a 1965 Chevy. He told me his thought was 'how many of those cars could possibly be left?' and did some digging, found that in many ways the oncoming emissions laws were really screwing up the average guy's ability to hop up his own car meaning his customer base was rapidly shrinking. hat's when he decided to close the thing down and he did so, just wound it down over a year or so. Two or three guys quickly opened shops to fill the perceived void, all were gone by 1986 because there just wasn't enough customer base. The same thing happens in this end of the car hobby, only Tim and Co. were able to expand British Car to embrace other nationalities as well and for that I applaud them.

I also remember the discussions on the board where some of the diehard Brit car guys were screeching because CMS (gasp!) covered other nationalities. Had Tim gone with that, he'd have been screwed because let's face it the demographic is shrinking. That's why Moss Motors branched out into Miata stuff, Victoria British added RX7 and Datsun Z stuff along with Chevy trucks. Delta Motorsports, long the stalwart of Jensen parts here in the US has expanded to cover other British brands as well. Had they not, they probably wouldn't be here now.
Dec. 10, 2008 10:35 a.m. Jerry From LA Reader

Nice post, Jensenman. It brings up a great point with your dad's speed shop experience. Businesses today must remain dynamic or die. The market changes much faster than it used to. Technology and society are changing in a wholesale manner so businesses must change with them.

I would rather have a world with GRM and CMS in it, even if they must change to stay viable. Here's an idea: Take Volume 1 Issue 1 of Auto-X and post it on the website here for all to see. I'm sure you'll all see what an anachronism it is now. The mag will look like ancient history. Posting it will also give the relative newcomers a taste of the automotive landscape back then.

The latest iteration of GRM is so much more relevant it's not funny. As relevant as it is, 25 years from now it will look like some sepia-toned antique.

Death, taxes and change. There's no avoiding them.
Dec. 10, 2008 10:36 a.m. nocones New Reader

In regards to the 335I, Who pays if it gets balled up at the track?

I'm just wondering, I've always wondered how Magazine cars work..
I know I can afford a new 335I, but I can't afford to track it, since I have to pay when joe can't drive is driving his <2K car at a track day at 11/10ths trying to show that he can out run a "insert random new car here" and runs me off the road totaling my ride.

Great magazine BTW. Although I don't share all the same opinions that the editors have, I realize like any logical person that opinions are by definition opinionated and you aren't going to like them all. Tim has a tough job trying to come up with editorial opinions that every issue will appeal to everyone and offend no one elses opinions, oh and don't forget running a magazine on top of that. Seems like an easy job conducting the gravy train with biscut wheels doesn't it.
Dec. 10, 2008 11:12 a.m. 4cylndrfury None

At this point there are 6 pages of responses, and Im sure this one will be lost, but I want to put in my 2 cents on captain Douchie pants' little retarded rant about Tim being a braggart etc...

A. Im pretty sure I remember reading that the BMW in question was a press mule...Im not really all that sure how the logistics of that whole transaction go, but Im betting Tim isnt paying what the average joe pays at the beemer dealership...maybe Im way wrong and I sound like an idiot...it wouldnt be the first time!

B. I am 28 years old, and spent my formative Teen years riding BMX and being spectacularly devoted to underacheivement. While all my friends were ricing up Civics and Integras in 1995/96/97, I was trying to get an adrenaline rush on my bike. I didnt find motorsports until I was probably 21. I had no friends still in the scene, and the few people left where I live werent so much into performance as they were the show scene. I didnt have a lot of support. The magazines I regularly found were the likes of Import Tuner and Modified Mag, Super Street etc. Anyone who regularly reads autosport publications understand the incredibly lame aspect of these mags...mostly devoted to eye candy trailer queen cars, or 250K super rides none of us want/can afford.

Then I found GRM...nuff said

Long story short, Tims mag redefined "automotive enthusiast" for me. So while I dont Know Tim, never met Tim, and have no idea what Tim's really like, his work has influenced me in ways I can not put into words, and made me feel like I can enjoy this hobby with my paycheck...its not a pipe dream, it can be my reality. Insulting him by saying hes "more than a little douchey" and questioning his motives with regards to what has turned into a 25 year labor of love really only highlights Vito82's jealousy and leads me to belive he has a negative balance in his testosterone account. Vito, go buy Modified magazine, look in back for the male enhancement ads, sell your minivan, use all the money you get for it to buy freight size orders from said ad,demand your wife give you back your male bits, and have nice life somehere else.

...ok I feel better
Dec. 10, 2008 11:16 a.m. John Brown UltimaDork

Props to you fury, and well said.
Dec. 10, 2008 11:42 a.m. Karl La Follette Reader
go buy Modified magazine, look in back for the male enhancement ads, sell your minivan, use all the money you get for it to buy freight size orders from said ad,
```
Call the eztenze people and just keep giving out everyones adress
```
you can think of and collect when they send it to them . Put up mailboxes on vacant land << multiple >> and do it grassroots style on the cheap .
Dec. 10, 2008 1:01 p.m. Joe Gearin Associate Publisher

nocones wrote:

I know I can afford a new 335I, but I can't afford to track it, since I have to pay when joe can't drive is driving his <2K car at a track day at 11/10ths trying to show that he can out run a "insert random new car here" and runs me off the road totaling my ride.

I'm sorry I ran you off the road in my Eagle. If you like I'll let you relax in my office for a while.
Dec. 10, 2008 1:31 p.m. DILYSI Dave PowerDork

Joe Gearin wrote:

nocones wrote:

I know I can afford a new 335I, but I can't afford to track it, since I have to pay when joe can't drive is driving his <2K car at a track day at 11/10ths trying to show that he can out run a "insert random new car here" and runs me off the road totaling my ride.

I'm sorry I ran you off the road in my Eagle. If you like I'll let you relax in my office for a while.

LOL
Dec. 10, 2008 2:17 p.m. Jake HalfDork

I, for one, welcome our BMW 335i-driving overlords.

Tim/ Marjorie- I don't know you guys from any other folks on the internets, but you put out a quality product that I enjoy, and will continue to buy. If you're doing well enough at it to afford a 335i outright, awesome, I'm proud of/for you. Live the dream. If, on the other hand, you rigged a way to get one and drive it for the ludicrous lease rate of a box of donuts a year- sweet. I couldn't care less. If that means I'm all up on your jock or whatever Vitoblahdeblh said, well, whatever.

In other words, rock on with your bad selves.
Dec. 10, 2008 2:48 p.m. AngryCorvair Dork

JeepinMatt wrote:

Grassroots enough for you?

Announcing Grassroots Motorsports' New-For-2009 Twisted Metal Challenge! Build it for under 2k and a box of donuts, or die!!

that's a '66 Caprice with an Impala front fender! caprice had unique "opera coupe" roofline. my '66 Caprice was factory-equipped with a 396/325 and an M20 four-speed. power nothing, no AC. i loved that car.
Dec. 10, 2008 2:56 p.m. AngryCorvair Dork

Marjorie Suddard wrote:

minimac wrote:

Marjorie Suddard Either way, though, you guys do know there's no way in hell we could afford to own even a fraction of all the cars we drive and write about

Does this mean I have a shot at your Corvair when it comes off the lease?

Hey, I do own that one, and it was a present!

In reality, though, you probably will have a shot at it if AngryCorvair doesn't buy it from us, since he gets first right of refusal because he berkeleying rules and provided us an excellent buyers' guide while we were in the "considering a corvair" phase. Sadly, we have to sell the completed ones to buy the next ones. Then again, we're rarely bored.

Margie

fixed.
Dec. 10, 2008 3:51 p.m. Marjorie Suddard General Manager

Fair enough!

Margie
Dec. 10, 2008 4:31 p.m. minimac Dork

Marjorie Suddard wrote:

Fair enough!

Margie

I claim "Shennanigans" on this reply. Pat is a wiener! Heck, he even changed his screen name back and forth. He can't be trusted! Angry had a nice Corvair , and sold it for $300! How long do you think it would be before he yanked the motor out of it, stuck a small block in the back seat, painted it flat black(with a roller) and sold it as an unfinished project with some 20" dubs? What, he told you to look at E-Bay to find a car, and sent a year old Hemmings price guide? How many years ago was that? I asked first-it's mine! (unless it's too much when the time comes)
Dec. 10, 2008 4:36 p.m. ddavidv SuperDork

Another "what is grassroots?" case in point:

My BMW E30 cost $1000. Pretty grassroots, huh? Yeah, and then I turned it into a Spec E30 car. Did all the work myself other than weld the cage kit together (though I did hold stuff and grind things to fit. And put out fires under the car). Even painted it myself with a roller. Ultra grassroots, right? Yeah, and I've got nearly 9 grand tied up in that thing now. Still grassroots?

Hmmmm.

All a matter of where you're standing and what you intend to accomplish.
Dec. 10, 2008 4:56 p.m. Rob_Mopar New Reader

Greg Voth wrote:

In case some people feel that the sky is falling, there are still people like me at the office. I own four cars currently, none newer than 1984, none I paid more than $2,500 for. Three RX-7s and a Dodge Aspen.

Tell us more about the Aspen. Will it be turned into a 335I killer?

-Rob
Dec. 10, 2008 5:21 p.m. AngryCorvair Dork

minimac wrote:

Marjorie Suddard wrote:

Fair enough!

Margie

I claim "Shennanigans" on this reply. Pat is a wiener! Heck, he even changed his screen name back and forth. He can't be trusted! Angry had a nice Corvair , and sold it for $300! How long do you think it would be before he yanked the motor out of it, stuck a small block in the back seat, painted it flat black(with a roller) and sold it as an unfinished project with some 20" dubs? What, he told you to look at E-Bay to find a car, and sent a year old Hemmings price guide? How many years ago was that? I asked first-it's mine! (unless it's too much when the time comes)

dude, i will totally go all internet tough guy on you. best you just find some other GRM car to buy, before my keyboard kicks your monitor's ass!

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