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July 25, 2008 11:38 p.m. mattm New Reader

After a recent off at Mid Ohio I have decided that it might be time to look into a tow vehicle for my almost spec miata. It is a 1991 at around 2300 lbs. I usually tow a tire trailer with the miata and have never been a real truck person, however I am going to go with a newer daily and wondered if this is not the perfect time to pick up a tow vehicle as the daily. I am of course worried about bad mileage however I have been driving my 2006 RX8 daily and getting 18 mpg right now. I am looking at the following vehicles and would appreciate any input.

2006 Toyota Tundra 4.7 V8 2WD 2006 F150 5.4? 2003 Nissan Frontier 2004 Honda Pilot ANY V6 Tacoma that doesn't cost a mint 2006 Explorer (V8) 2005+ Ranger 2004+ GMC/Chevy Silverado etc Toyota 4Runner (again not going to pay 20k for a 5 year old vehicle with 85k on it)

Any other ideas as to a tow vehicle that could be used daily and not kill me with 14mpg or would it be better (I think it would) to get an older Ford conversion Van for $500 and use it for towing and get a Mazda 3 for a daily? I know where a 1998 Ford conversion van could be had for around $500 with 85k on it. Needs brakes and a windshield. Has a bed, TV, VCR and the 4.6 V8.

Thanks!!
July 25, 2008 11:56 p.m. ww Dork

Think DIESEL. Yes, it costs a little more per gallon, but you get way more miles for each of those gallons.

I have a friend with a Dodge Cummins Turbo Diesel that gets 22mpg when the thing is completely empty and 22mpg when he's pulling a 10k lb load!

My 5.9L Durango gets 15mpg empty and about 8mpg towing my car trailer and my "track pack" load.

My next tow vehicle is going to be a Turbo Diesel. Once that happens, virtually every car I own will be running over 20mpg. Honda Civic, Subaru Outback Sport and a plethora of Datsun/Nissan Z cars.
July 26, 2008 12:10 a.m. mattm New Reader

I haven't found that many diesels for sale locally (columbus, OH) and I need to trade a car in to do this. That said I would absolutely LOVE a diesel but I am not sure I can find one in the next month.
July 26, 2008 6:15 a.m. ddavidv SuperDork

The van (as a partner to the Mazda 3) would double your tags, taxes and insurance, so you need to weigh the potential costs of that. Vans are extremely handy. I do not, however, like conversion vans. 90% of them are very poorly built and most companies that made them have gone under or changed names 5 times in avoidance of angry customers.

I'm a firm believer in full size pickups being the only choice (other than a mid-size Dakota). Mini trucks are not real trucks for serious jobs like towing. I've owned several to come to that conclusion. The room, strength and surprisingly similar fuel mileage of many full size trucks just make mini trucks seem absurd. The secrets to success with full size trucks are drivetrain, gearing and avoiding the driven front axle. It's entirely possible to get high teens to low 20s in a full size truck if you select properly. I'm a big fan of the Ford 300 six with a stick shift behind it. Great torque specs (you want torque in a truck, not big HP).

My solution to the problem was to buy a 'vintage' truck that's fairly modern under the skin. I get 15 mpg, which isn't spectacular, but it's better than a new Dakota V8. Antique tags and insurance, no depreciation, and chicks dig it. Some of the modern amenities are missing and I may live to regret it, but how many times do I really tow long distances anyway? Vent windows FTW over a/c has worked fine so far.

Make a list of what you want in a tow vehicle and what you NEED as basics and then see what may fit.
July 26, 2008 6:27 a.m. Woodyhfd HalfDork

I tow my Miata on an aluminum trailer with a 2005 Tacoma V6 four door long bed. It's rated to tow 6500, but I wouldn't want to tow much more than I'm pulling now.

However, I only tow a handful of days each year and, as a non-truck person, the Tacoma is an easy vehicle to live with on a daily basis.
July 26, 2008 12:16 p.m. patgizz Dork

trailblazer?

all aluminum DOHC inline 6 = cool.
July 26, 2008 1:34 p.m. chknhwk New Reader

I'd look at some of the smaller trucks like a Mazda 4000 or Chevy S-10 with the V6's. My sister just bought a Mazda 4000 and the tow rating was like 6500 pounds, more than enough for what you're towing, as long as you don't go crazy with the trailer choice. I'm unsure on the mpg ratings but I'm guessing if you don't go with extended cab or 4x4 it might be a little higher (WAG assuming less weight = more mpg). I haven't looked at mpg ratings of anything else because my tow vehicle got 18mpg towing a '98 Cobra to Mid-O last trip out. 1998 GMC 1500, 5.7L.
July 26, 2008 8:50 p.m. aussiesmg HalfDork

I just purchased a Ford E150 with a full tow package, it is the Chateau version by Ford, which means almost a conversion without the tacky bits or extra weight, came with 7 point power plug, trans cooler, 5.8 engine and electric brake package. My wife loves it and for two tanks to date has averaged 17 mpg which is way better than I had expected.

Interior wise, 4 captains chairs and rear bench seat/manual bed, loads of room, CD player and dual zone A/C.

I haven't towed yet but if it compares to like it does empty it will be a pleasure
July 26, 2008 9:08 p.m. foxtrapper SuperDork

I've got a T100 with the 3.4 V6. It pulls my Spitfire around on a lawn equipment trailer with no problems. I can hold 70+ going up mountains with the cruise control.

You don't need a V8 or a huge honk'n diesel for what you're describing.
July 26, 2008 9:54 p.m. ReverendDexter New Reader

+1 on the Ford 300

Decent gas mileage, loads of torque, and they last forever. There's a reason they're the motor used in the UPS vans.

I'm a fan of the Full-size Bronco as a tow vehicle. Yes, you're gonna end up with 4wd, and it's not going to be as nice for long-distance tows, being that it's short wheelbase. However, the first time you're backing up that trailer, you'll find what a blessing that short wheelbase is. Plus, the divetrain in them in nigh-indestructable, and you have good visibility (for an SUV). The best advice I can give for a Bronco though, is do NOT get one that's carbureted, and avoid the 5.0. If you cant'f find one with the 6, hold out for a 351 truck.

Also, while you may not "need" a V8 or diesel, it's so much nicer to have a vehicle that's overkill for what you're towing than to be worried about the big hill in front of you.
July 27, 2008 12:43 a.m. oldopelguy HalfDork

-1 for the Ford 300

I delivered my engine block to the machine shop in my neighbor's perfectly running F150 with the 300 and a 5-speed. With the Mopar 440 in back it wouldn't maintain any grade at all in 5th, and was constantly down shifting all the way to third. My last Ford van also had the 300-6 and it was geared so as to have useable power but never achieved double-digit mpg.

If I was going for an inline-6 I'd want either a 225 in a Dodge "Mizer" package D-100, or a Jeep 4.0 in a Comanche or Gladiator.

Standard cab, short box, manual transmission, 2WD, V-8, full sized truck from any of the big-4 made in the last 5 years would be a great tow rig and should reliabily get over 20mpg empty. My experience has been that the last couple generations of Chevy's seemed to do better mpg-wise than the other brands, even my '90 c1500 gets 22+ on the highway empty.
July 27, 2008 9:48 a.m. walterj HalfDork

Towing a miata isn't much work for any truck... at 2300lbs for the car you will be pulling a load less than 5k lbs with trailer, tools and tires. Since you can use just about any truck with 7k tow capacity to pull a miata on an open trailer - I have to disagree with the advice to buy a diesel because you can pick up a very decent used truck for under $7k now (or a new one with massive incentives) and put 87 octane gas in it.

My own example: I have a 2000 Tundra 4.7L that I pull an E36 with a 20' steel trailer, and with the total load it ends up near 6600lbs with all the gear. I get 10-12MPG pulling that at 75MPH - and 17 with no load.

How long will it take you to re-coup the loss over buying and maintaining a diesel with fuel at $5/g and only a few MPG better? What is it worth to you have a smaller, agile, more parkable vehicle over saaay an F-250 Super Duty? Do you plan to move to an enclosed trailer in the future? Figure a lot less MPG for the wind resistance... friend gets 5-7MPG pulling a 20' box with an F-150.
July 27, 2008 10:30 a.m. Datsun1500 New Reader

Get the older conversion van for the times you tow, and the Mazda 3 for the daily. We have a 97 Chevy conversion van as a tow/track vehicle and it is nice to have something other than a tent when it rains. Having the tow vehicle as a 2nd (or 3rd) car is really nice. You don't have to clean it Sunday night to use it on Monday, if anyone else needs a tow vehicle they can just use it, if your daily driver breaks, you have a spare etc.

You can pick up the low top conversion vans for not much $$. If you buy a van for $1000 and a Mazda 3 for $15K instead of a used Tundra for $16K in a year you will have a nice Mazda 3 and a van that is still worth a grand instead of a beat up daily driver truck.

At this point the van we have could blow up Tomorrow for all I care, it owes me nothing. I paid $2500 for it 5 years ago and have put 100K miles on it.
July 27, 2008 6:15 p.m. ManofFewWords New Reader

I have a 94 awd astro van, a 94 jeep cherokee, and a diesel 94 chevy 3500hd dually. I recently sold my 01 silverado with the 5.3. I would tow a miata with any of these. The van is great for race days, room to sack out in the back, great in a rainstorm, plenty of lockable room for gear/tools/people. with the front driveshaft removed it gets 20mpg highway. cherokee will do it too. my diesel wouldn't even feel it. I would go with a cheapo full size conversion van, prferably a 3/4 ton model (chevy more common). These are very cheap around here. IMO, where you tow is as vital as what you tow with. Colorado mountains or Kansas plains, etc. Oh, and don't count on a diesel getting over 20mpg in real life. I get 13-14, and i'm tired of 5/per gallon fillups...
July 28, 2008 12:00 a.m. ReverendDexter New Reader

walterj wrote: My own example: I have a 2000 Tundra 4.7L that I pull an E36 with a 20' steel trailer, and with the total load it ends up near 6600lbs with all the gear. I get 10-12MPG pulling that at 75MPH - and 17 with no load.

How long will it take you to re-coup the loss over buying and maintaining a diesel with fuel at $5/g and only a few MPG better? What is it worth to you have a smaller, agile, more parkable vehicle over saaay an F-250 Super Duty? Do you plan to move to an enclosed trailer in the future? Figure a lot less MPG for the wind resistance... friend gets 5-7MPG pulling a 20' box with an F-150.

And my father and I averaged 17mpg in his '03 Powerstroke towing a convertible foxbody mustang from Riverside to the north end of the Sierra Nevadas. That's certainly more than "only a few MPG better"!

Of course, I just did the math, and assuming 12mpg at $4/gallon for gas and 17mpg at $5/gallon for diesel, it'll still take 128k miles to make up the difference (assuming I did my math correctly and the difference in price between the two trucks was $5k).
July 28, 2008 12:49 a.m. mtn Dork

Just gonna throw this out there, seeing as I accidentally came upon the wikipedia page for it.... You could get the 94-96 Cadillac Fleetwoods with the LT-1 with a 7000lb towing package.

So I'd assume that the Caprices and Roadmonsters are the same. And I'd assume that they would get about 18-25ish (Guessing). Not sure if you're looking for only SUV's or Pick-me-up trucks, but our 92' Roadmonster towed a 2000lb boat no problem.
July 28, 2008 9:42 a.m. walterj HalfDork

ReverendDexter wrote: That's certainly more than "only a few MPG better"!

Of course, I just did the math, and assuming 12mpg at $4/gallon for gas and 17mpg at $5/gallon for diesel, it'll still take 128k miles to make up the difference (assuming I did my math correctly and the difference in price between the two trucks was $5k).

Yeah, that is kindof where I was going with that...

I see people selling trucks that they paid $30k for 3yrs ago for $10k because fuel went up by $30 a tank.... I wonder if they realize how much fuel they could have bought for the $20k lost in depreciation even before they spend more on top of it to buy a truck that gets 3-5MPG better. Its a lot of bad logic to "save" $10 a week on fill-ups.
July 28, 2008 10:20 a.m. Cotton Reader

+1 on the diesel. I paid a little less that 6k for my 95 Dodge dually with the Cummins. It's turned up and has a built automatic. I had it dynoed and it did over 600 ft lbs of torque to the wheels. It isn't the prettiest truck on the road, but tows awesome and gets 19-20MPG unloaded. Just because it's a diesel doesn't mean it will cost you 30k.
July 28, 2008 10:42 a.m. iceracer New Reader

My Jeep Liberty with tow package, rated at 5000 lbs. pulls my 3900 lb. car and trailer fine. 11 to 14 mpg. depending on how many hills.
July 28, 2008 11:42 a.m. wreckerboy SuperDork

I'm glad somebody else brought up the ROI issues with purchasing a diesel anything these days. I went through a similar drill when shopping for a tow vehicle a few years ago as well (when fuel prices were much more reasonable) and came to a similar conclusion. Unless you are going to drive the thing for close to forever, it will be forever before you see any sort of return on the diesel. For the typical user, gas motors are a better purchase.

That being said, a possible bargain is the E350 Ford with a V10. Because they are perceived as gas hogs they are priced accordingly. I purchased my '04 in mid '05 with 17K miles on it for about 40% of sticker because nobody wanted a "gas hog." It sat on the dealer's lot for at least three months and they were willing to bargain. Gas was under $2/gallon then. The reality is that in your application, which is very similar to mine, the combination is so underworked that the gas mileage is the same as, or even better than the V8 trucks. I get 12-13 towing with mine, and that's at 75+ with the A/C on. Around town I can manage 14-15.

It's a sucky truck for a daily, but because it can be purchased cheaply it leaves you room in the budget for a decent daily.

An alternative are the Escalade/Tahoe twins that are starting to come off lease. They are going for very reasonable money according to friends in the market, and might be managable as a daily, if you can stand the gas mileage. Again, run the numbers including purchase price and maintenance and see if it works for you.
July 28, 2008 3:23 p.m. nocarbud New Reader

You said you had a trade in? what are you trading in? After pulling with my cherokee, and pulling with a ram 1500, I'd take the truck over the jeep. the jeep got terrible mileage (less than 12.) pulling 4300 lbs (small car, tools, trailer), and the truck with a slightly larger v8 and extra long bed got about the same pulling as it did empty (around 16). the truck's load was closer to 6000 load. (antique farm tractor, larger trailer, larger parts, lots of tools.) It seemed like the jeep had to struggle more to maintain its momentum, whereas the truck did not. The truck's extra size made things much more stable, comfy pulling any kind of distance. Something else to think about... why get a P.O.S. to do your towing? All I know is that if I'm going to break down on the side of the road in a $500 vehicle, I want to know that I can stick a rag in the gas cap, and light it on fire without leaving behind my race car, etc. When I have that much stuff in tow, I want to be sure I get there without incident. Get something reliable to tow with, and if you want a beater to commute with, if that breaks, you can always use the tow vehicle to commute with until your beater gets fixed. It's very hard to tow anything with your mazda3 if the beater tow rig fails. Not hard to commute in the tow rig when the beater commuter car fails.
July 28, 2008 9:52 p.m. mattm New Reader

Thanks for all the input guys!! I am still looking at this time. I have a 6 month 6000 mile return policy on my 2006 RX8 and thought I might take it back for a truck. Essentially I will probably have some more to pay in taxes to get into the other vehicle but I also get to sell off my beater 1989 Mazda B2200 thus reducing my insurance and tags.

Since my off at Mid Ohio a couple of weeks ago in my Miata I am much more concerned with the fact that I do not have a tow vehicle of any type at home even with though I have 4 vehicles. I don't really need 2 sports cars... did I just say that??? Anyway, I guess I could use a truck/SUV/tow rig of some kind more than I need the RX8 and my gas mileage would stay pretty close to the same give or take 1-2mpg. I also want to try to reduce my payment somewhat and I could with this 6000 mile exchange policy at the dealer.

I drove the 2006 tundra (double cab 2WD) this weekend and boy am I NOT a truck person. However it was quiet and smooth for a truck and I am sure the resale would be OK and the reliability should be good. My payment won't drop as much as I would like so I also looked at a GMC Sierra extended cab 2WD and could save $1500 or so on that vehicle and the miles are similar. The Tundra appears to be in better shape so I am heavily leaning in that direction right now. There are also a few F150s available in my price range but they all seem to be 4WD and have the 5.4. My big concern is commuting in this vehicle as it feels like it would be such as waste to drive any of these everyday, but maybe I will get over that
July 28, 2008 10:04 p.m. mattm New Reader

Another aspect of this is that I bet that the tundra might have better resale than the RX8 so it would be easier to get rid of later. At least until gas prices hit $9 per gallon. Really leaning towards the Tundra. The wife thinks I am a little crazy for getting rid of the RX8 which I love for a truck, but I think that I could really use a truck especially since I plan on continuing with NASA time trials and on to spec miata..
July 28, 2008 10:56 p.m. exST165 New Reader

I'm in a similar situation that I am looking to trade in my daily driver for something that I can use to safely tow my project car to auto-x or lapping days. It would have to be a daily driver as I don't have space to park a fourth vehicle and I want to stay away from pickups as I don't like the idea of manouvering through a crowded parking lot every morning in one.

You mentioned a Toyota 4Runner up at the top of this thread and no one picked it up. Similarly what about a Nissan Pathfinder? Later models of both are rated at 5,000 lb towing capacity and the latest Pathfinders are up to 6,000 lbs. Looking on-line and prices for 2001 and 2002 Pathfinders (3.5 litre V6) have noticably dropped.

TIA, Thomas
July 29, 2008 7:50 a.m. Datsun1500 New Reader

Dealer cash on New Pathfinders and Xterras are the reason the used ones are dropping. You can get a new one for $7K off sticker. Even the cheap ones. Saw one yesterday that stickered for 23,200 and was quoted $16,500. That was 4x4 with options. 2WD stick can get down to high 14's

Lot of bang for the buck there.

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