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  Oct. 5, 2009 1:30 a.m. SpeedyWilson New Reader

  Getting a 91 corolla efi car for parts I hope. Better head? Going to get the thing going and build the box of parts and other block into something when time and money permits. Got an idea earlier though....this 22r adapter and a holley from a chevette. The toyota side looks real close to the 4af gasket pad....heres a link though long...

  http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Carburetor-Adapter-Toyota-22R-Holley-350-500-650-2b...

  For the race engine setup I am either going 7af block/4af head/carb / custom cams/ hi comp pistons/or finding a 4age that the people dont think is worth a gold mine. I would attempt a 3sfe swap seeing as how some celicas had them if dirt cheap. Whoa...theory time...if some celicas had either a 4afe or a 3sfe a 3sfe will fit in a corolla,and if a 5sfe will fit where a 3sfe was then a 5sfe will fit the corolla? Is this crazy? Hey,I seen a 4g63 in a dodge colt hatch and a hyundai excel in magazines...the colt was a GRM car I think. Is it possible to fit the 5sfe?

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  Oct. 5, 2009 6:30 a.m. 4cylndrfury Dork

  I think a lot of colts came with 4Gs in em from the factory.

  whatever happened to 93celicaGT2? I dont recall seeing him lately... isnt this thread like his wet dream or something?

  Anyway, all I know about the 4af engines is that the one in my 95 was EFI, had a pretty flat torque curve as analyzed by my butt dyno, could be flogged on a regular basis and still pull in ~30 mpg mixed, and really loved cam overlap and ignition advance with 93 octane fuel.

  The only downer from that car was that it had a 2 piece crank pulley with a rubber spacer between the pieces - think wide rubber band - that was there to damp the vibrations from the crank. over time it got brittle and thinned out and allowed the outer part of the pulley (that carried the belts) to slide latterally on the hub and chew up belts as it went. Took me 40$ worth of belts to realize it was the pulley. No matter how tight I made the belts by yanking on the alternator, they were still gonna meet a grizzly death. New units from advance - o - zone were ~$150 and unobtainium. So, my solution was a few pan head sheet metal screws through the outer ring and into the hub - countersunk to allow the belts to ride smoothly. I even was able to keep my AC.

  Man I loved what they did for me - TOYOTA (4cf jumps in the air and is frozen by still photography)

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  Oct. 5, 2009 9:45 a.m. Dr. Hess PowerDork

  I had the harmonic balancer on a 22RE separate like that. Left me stranded. When I figured out what it was, I put the loose part back on the fixed part and drove it 30 miles home like that. Then I found a pulley off a 22R Celi that was solid and I put that on in it's place. That worked fine until the timing chain ate through the front cover water passage. I gave up on that one at that point. It is now awaiting a 1uzfe "one of these days," after the Europa is one the road, after the Locost is on the road.

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  Oct. 6, 2009 12:42 a.m. SpeedyWilson New Reader

  The blancer on mine looked ok when I pulled it off. I'm just worried about the timing tensioner. It spins really free with no play or binding but I soaked it in keroseen for 3 weeks too. no way to grease it other than soak it in oil before I install it again? I heard it is graphite inside and dont need grease. True? I had a stock sbc balancer eat a radiator at valve float(7000 rpm) while um...not obeying all traffic laws and or the blue lights behind me.(16 and no license then) Thought I dropped a valve or 3 because I made it down the dirt road and shut it down.Missed like hell but run. Actually fixed it and dad made me trade it off,miss that old black cutlass. That 355 at 11.5 or so to 1 would scoot. Makes me wonder if I should splurge on a new one for the yota seeing as how it will be wound up for most of it's life on the dirt. Now I'm just painting brackets and cleaning up parts I will reuse untill I get an engine. Keroseen and Dupli color make a world of difference on a greasy pile of junk. Even polishing the valve cover. That is time consuming using progressive grits,my hand and mothers mag wheel polish and a shop towel. Any better way to do it?

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  Oct. 7, 2009 9:58 p.m. SpeedyWilson New Reader

  Waiting on payday to get parts car,I hope. Man I need to get stuff running here.....

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  Oct. 14, 2009 8:22 p.m. SpeedyWilson New Reader

  I got parts car,it actually runs good but bent unibody, hit in back hard but front is ok. Got it running today. It is the efi version of the 4af. Anyone like to lend an opinion on how hard it will be to swap the whole efi system over to the 89 model from the 91? I know I got to swap the gas tank for the fuel pump but just how much wiring is involved? I have figured that other than the wiring from the ecu to the various sensors and injectors,tps and junk on the engine that talks to the ecu the harness is the same up to a point. I want to just add what I need to make it work. I don't know crap about wiring,I am a nuts and bolts kind of guy here. I dont want to pull gauge wires and starter wires when it is already installed and basicaly the same unless I can swap the whole harness in one piece without butchering it up. I hope I make sense here. Something I havent thought about untill now is if the cam has the lobe on it to drive the manual fuel pump if i go carb. I havent even really looked at the 4afe real up close yet for the mounting boss on the head for it either. May have to run an electric pump anyway. The distributor looks the same but I am going to run the 89 one if I use a carb. I dont want to do anything internal to the engine like cams yet. I plan to just replace the timing belt,water pump and all the gaskets. Add some block paint and thats about it other than plugs and that kind of stuff. Get it in and moving then worry about making it faster. Any suggestions other that buy a 4age?

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  Oct. 14, 2009 8:36 p.m. Dr. Hess PowerDork

  If you want to go EFI, then swap the tank, pull the full engine harness and ECU from the donor and put it in the other one. If wiring is not your thing, you will probably be better off just R&R'ing the motor and putting the carb pieces from the dead motor on the new one. For example, would hooking up the fuel pump relay and running the wires to the pump be over your head? Can you read schematics? Wiring has killed more engine swaps than anything else, as far as I've seen.

  I haven't messed much with 4AF's, but if they are like the rest of Toyotas, then if the carb one has a cam driven fuel pump, the EFI one will have the same stuff for it, but just be blocked off.

  I wouldn't bother with the timing belt unless it is obviously shot. That motor should be non-interference, so if the belt does go, it just stops you there and won't damage anything. I'd leave the water pump alone too unless it is leaking.

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  Oct. 14, 2009 11:02 p.m. SpeedyWilson New Reader

  Hum, still going to change gaskets out. I hate leaks. I can label what I unplug and take notes. I just dont want to have to cut up the harness to much and piece it all back together to short out later. from my research to this point I have found that the surest and safest way is to just pull the entire harness from the engine,all the under dash and gauge wires and the wiring for the fuel pump and swap it out in one piece with no cutting if at all possible. I will hack holes in the body before I cut up the harness. I got the gauge cluster and everything so that much is figured out. It's not the easy route but I have lots of time and no money left. If I am patient and don't get frustrated I think i can pull it off. If it was RWD it would have a 350 SBC and a powerglide in it. I think I could have tube framed it and done it by the time I get it going...lol. Thanx for the insight though..

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  Oct. 15, 2009 12:14 p.m. Dr. Hess PowerDork

  Is that donor a 2 door or a 4 door?

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  Oct. 15, 2009 1:16 p.m. SpeedyWilson New Reader

  4, same as the one I want to fix. Need some parts? Cheap?

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  Oct. 15, 2009 2:06 p.m. Dr. Hess PowerDork

  I need some 2 door parts, and they are 2 door specific, I'm afraid.

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  Oct. 16, 2009 12:02 a.m. SpeedyWilson New Reader

  Yeah,I was hoping that when I went to get this car it was a 2 door. The GT-S was the one with the flip up head lights right? Look good on a more door just to be different. I got to find a decent wiring diagram that makes sense. May have to order a chilton manual. I wouldn't wipe my can on a Haynes. Got one that is about useless already. After I get what I need to get myself going I am going to part out the rest of what I got. I got an auto trans cheap but really,who wants an auto? Got an decent 4af head too.

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  Oct. 17, 2009 12:17 a.m. SpeedyWilson New Reader

  I need a legible wiring diagram for the 91 corolla with a 4afe/auto trans. Any help?

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  Oct. 17, 2009 8:02 a.m. Dr. Hess PowerDork

  Here's a 1990: http://opc.mr2oc.com/online_parts_catalog/1990CorollaFWD.pdf

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  Oct. 17, 2009 11:38 p.m. SpeedyWilson New Reader

  Thanx. Now I got to figure out how to read them better. I took loose all the engine harness and labeled each connector,took notes. I am hoping the 89 harness that stays hooked to the body and plugs into the underhood fuse box will plug into the 91 box that my new engine harness does. All I got to do now is unplug what ever is left under the dash and snake it out without screwing it up beyond all hope of fixing. I am not sure what the other end of the engine harness is tied in to other than the ecu. Will I have to pull the other fuse box and that harness too? All I got to so far in the dash is pulling the gauge cluster out.

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  Oct. 20, 2009 9:24 p.m. SpeedyWilson New Reader

  Going to pull the dash out tomorrow. Its better than the one I got. Easier to get at all the wires that way. Hope it isn't going to be that bad.

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  Oct. 21, 2009 6:39 a.m. Dr. Hess PowerDork

  I dunno about your fuse box. I think you should be OK. The boxes under the hood mostly fuse stuff like the AC, headlights, etc. I'm trying to recall the rest of the wiring. I think there's a fuse box in one of the foot wells. Make sure they are the same. That is, make sure that the carby one has the same fuses, relays, etc. in it as the EFI one. If you are pulling the whole dash out, you should be able to swap all the stuff over pretty easily. Might be easier yet to pull the seats too. That's just a couple more bolts.

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  Oct. 21, 2009 10:57 p.m. SpeedyWilson New Reader

  Pulled the dash. Some of the main harness wires have been burnt and taped back up, cut and spliced. I took the engine harness out,the ecu and the headlight/fan harness too. In the driver side kick panel there is a main fuse block. The headlight harness plugs in it. The small ecu plug is tied into the main gob of wires under the dash, the "circuit opening relay" mounted to the ecu is tied into it also.Other than the ecu plugs,3 connectors mate the engine harness to the main wiring. I am hoping that once I get the tape off the main underdash harness I can try to eliminate or repair some of the circuits if it is worse than it looks. I think some idiot tried to wire a stereo in and fried some stuff because there were a bunch of speaker wires,amp cables and stuff fed into it all and hanging out. I downloaded the wiring specs. Where are the junction blocks that it keeps refering to? It says there are 3. Only thing I can think of is the 2 under hood fuse boxes and the kick panel fuse block. I am by no means good at wiring. Also I hear alot about the ever popular 20v 4age swaps. Alot of the threads I have read says you need just the engine/ecu harness. How does this work for a 4afe? If the main harness is beyond repair under the tape is there a way to graft in the wiring from the ecu and keep as much of the carb'd cars' harness as possible? Wiring sux....

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  Oct. 22, 2009 6:52 a.m. Dr. Hess PowerDork

  With a 20v swap, you still need to hook both harnesses together. Some people will do this for you and make it close to plug and play, but they charge pretty good for it. It's quite time consuming, so that's why they charge. There is another junction box with relays and stuff under the passenger kick panel.

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  Oct. 23, 2009 12:03 a.m. SpeedyWilson New Reader

  Yeah, if I remember right it was just a big piece of molded plastic that held 2 conectors together. I was thinking that with the way each set of circuits seems to have its own harness, like headlights/fan,engine,ac, that I may be able to just plug in pieces of the old one to replace what is damaged on the efi one. I will have to unravel the tape and trace the circuits to see what is what first. The ecu controls the fan for the efi version right? I may try to use the old headlight harness but use the 1991 connector because of the added circuits. Trace the headlights,horn,blinkers ect... and put the right wire back into the right pin location on the 91 connectors so I can use the 91 fuse block. The headlight harness on the 91 and fan circuit ?(found 2 cut wires on the harness) has been butchered up. Sure it would be easy to just swap it all but the cut and melted wires have me worried that something will short out causing a fire or I will fry a critical component I can't afford. One way or another I will figure it all out. I got to get my son this weekend so it will be a while before i get back on it. Will let you know how it goes...thanx for the help ppl....

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  Oct. 23, 2009 6:33 a.m. Dr. Hess PowerDork

  The fan circuit is very complicated. It is not controlled by the ECU, but turns on when the AC is on or when the switch on the motor turns it on. The relays for it are in the relay/fuse box in the engine compartment.

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  Oct. 24, 2009 8:39 a.m. SpeedyWilson New Reader

  Thanx,I was reading about it having a temp control sensor on the block. I found one on the thermostat housing, pointing towards the grille that was broke off. The a/c fan was spliced to run from the turn of the key and the main fan was unhooked with dangling wires.I got a similar sensor on the 4af thermo housing I remember removing when I painted it but I am not sure if it is the same thing yet,I haven't had time to look. Worse case I can just get an aftermarket thermostat relay from painless wiring or some such place that turns the fan on and off at a pre selected temp.I don't think it is safe just to straight wire it to a keyed ignition source without a relay due to the load.They universal deal is the ones used when putting an elctric fan on an old muscle car. I plan to install some cheap manual gauges,like oil pressure,and coolant temp that can be bought at auto zone. I dont know if they have sending units but most will read from a GM style sending unit if I can figure out where to put them. Hopefully i can get a day off when it ain't raining to work on my junk.

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  Oct. 28, 2009 1:25 a.m. SpeedyWilson New Reader

  Crunch time. I got to have the drivetrain out of the 91,the rest of the wiring and the entire fuel system out ,and the 89 running by sundown thursday. Bet a case of bud that I could do it. Here goes nothing.......

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  Oct. 29, 2009 9:51 p.m. SpeedyWilson New Reader

  Motor/ trans in. Wiring ready to be swapped. I lost a case of Bud. Oh well.....

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  Oct. 30, 2009 8:15 a.m. Dr. Hess PowerDork

  Just as an observation, Budweiser and Wiring and not compatible.

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