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Aug. 21, 2008 8:44 p.m. petegossett Dork

Is there anyone who still offers Liability and/or Comprehensive coverage for a Track-toy/racecar that's driven on the street? I'm not concerned about on-track coverage, just coverage to get there & back, as well as the occasional car show/cruise night/etc. I found an old link on corner-carvers about Parish-Heacock, but their website doesn't specifically mention it.

I'm not actually looking for any right now, but I was having an argument with a friend(who's an insurance adjuster)and he told me no one offers this coverage. I remember it being offered a few years ago, but I want to confirm it's still available somewhere be for I call him on it.
Aug. 21, 2008 8:55 p.m. Xceler8x Reader

I would imagine most would cover a car for street duty. If it were a 1972 Datsun with expensive mods I think you would have to have it appraised and pay for enough coverage to pay for the mods if the car were totalled on the street. It makes sense...you can't buy $500 of coverage for a $5000 car. Also, the company I work with will cut you a break for a car that sees limited mileage.

Edited this to say I'm talking completely out my mental anus on this one. I have no experience in this kind of coverage so could be completely wrong.
Aug. 21, 2008 9:28 p.m. CGLockRacer New Reader

I don't want to sound like i'm advertising but check out my website and I have an insurance company sponsor that covers my car (when not on track), trailer, and equipment. www.TeamMatherMotorsport.com
Aug. 21, 2008 10:09 p.m. pigeon New Reader

CGLockRacer wrote:

I don't want to sound like i'm advertising but check out my website and I have an insurance company sponsor that covers my car (when not on track), trailer, and equipment. www.TeamMatherMotorsport.com

Looks like that policy (Travelers Insurance Commercial Policy) specifically won't be written for street-licensed cars, which the OP was looking to do. Why wouldn't regular liability & comprehensive insurance cover this situation?

Scott
Aug. 22, 2008 6:04 a.m. ddavidv SuperDork

My BMW is insured with State Farm liability only. It is (barely) street legal. They have no clue what it looks like, to them it's just a 1987 BMW.

Different companies respond to these things differently. The one I work for, who is famous for a lizard-like spokesman, will absolutely drop you if they find out you have a 'race car'. They define such a vehicle as anything with a cold air intake and lowered springs. Yeah, I know. One of my future missions in life is to take on the underwriting management on the issue. The irony of sponsoring not only a low level NASCAR team but one of the cars on "Setup" has not escaped me.

I would consult with the usual collector car insurers as there are a few who have stepped up to providing coverage for cars like ours.
Aug. 22, 2008 7:08 a.m. petegossett Dork

ddavidv wrote:

My BMW is insured with State Farm liability only. It is (barely) street legal. They have no clue what it looks like, to them it's just a 1987 BMW.

I'm guessing you just have it covered with normal liability insurance, not any type of collector-car/specialty insurance?

My friend's current assignment is to review new applications for specialty/collector car insurance, and if he suspects the vehicle may be used for motorsports, to decline coverage(based on the company's directive). Since they require pictures(these are typically stated-value polices as well), and he's a car-guy, it's fairly obvious what the intention is when he's looking at a car with a full cage and race-spec parts on it.

What he's told me is that no carrier would cover a purpose built racecar, even with just basic liablility coverage, for street use. I think he's wrong.
Aug. 22, 2008 7:46 a.m. Ian F Reader

I think it depends on what kind of insurance you want. If the car is tagged and otherwise street legal - and all you want is liability/minimum coverage - then I don't see how any company wouldn't insure the car. They don't have to know it's a p/t race car... it's just a car.

Now it would probably be trickier if you wanted more than basic insurance. Possibly as a rider on your home-owner's or renter's insurance to cover things like theft or non-moving related damage (a tree falls on it), with a "declared value" amount. But you would still need std auto insurance for liability.

Likewise, it may be easier if the car is vintage/historic, then one of the collector-car companies may cover it, although probably not for competition-related damage. I seem to remember Hagerty having a "Competition" catagory (I just filled all of this out for my '78 Spit 6).
Aug. 22, 2008 8:15 a.m. Greg Voth Associate Publisher

I know that this is not exactly what you are looking for but... I just met with the Lockton Affinity people last week who are offering HPDE Insurance. It covers your car on track as long as the event is approved. The gentleman I met with races an E30 and is truly a car guy at heart.

http://www.motorsportreg.com/index.cfm/event/hpdeinsurance

They are currently trying to get NASA HPDE events covered.
Aug. 22, 2008 8:31 a.m. Duke Dork

State Farm will, AFAIK, write comprehensive, collision, and liability for the street life of a race car. You would need a "negotiated value" policy, where you get the car appraised by a third party, and once the value of the car is agreed to by all parties, they will write you a policy based on that amount. They do usually give discounts for multiple cars, and also for "pleasure use" cars that see under 5,000 miles a year.

Of course they won't cover it while it's on track.
Aug. 22, 2008 10:26 a.m. petegossett Dork

Duke wrote:

State Farm will, AFAIK, write comprehensive, collision, and liability for the street life of a race car. You would need a "negotiated value" policy, where you get the car appraised by a third party, and once the value of the car is agreed to by all parties, they will write you a policy based on that amount. They do usually give discounts for multiple cars, and also for "pleasure use" cars that see under 5,000 miles a year.

Of course they won't cover it while it's on track.

Actually, my friend confirmed this is incorrect - if they discover the car is truly a race car(not just your street car you take to performance events)they will not cover it.

I agree, if you wanted to just "not tell them" it was a race car, and insure it with basic liability(or even full-coverage), they would likely never know otherwise. But if you tried to get a stated-value policy, they would know from the pictures what was up & deny coverage.
Aug. 22, 2008 11:22 a.m. pigeon New Reader

As with all things insurance, read the policy language, it controls what is and is not covered once you have a policy. Now, underwriting decisions, that's a different thing, perhaps you could try to get a copy of the underwriting guidelines/policies from your state insurance regulators for various companies you are considering? Either that, or find a really good independent agent and have them earn their commission by doing the leg work for you.

Scott
Aug. 22, 2008 11:50 a.m. Woodyhfd HalfDork

Do you actually race it or do you just use it for Driver Education events?
Aug. 22, 2008 12:02 p.m. VWralley New Reader

just speaking for myself, as i am currently looking into this for my toy...it is not "raced" only drivers ed an track days. i do participate in autox's but i dont think that is waht you are asking about...

definatly interested to see what is available. Hagerty seems to be really good an i've spoken with a few people who use them an all are very happy.
Aug. 22, 2008 12:26 p.m. Duke Dork

petegossett wrote:

Actually, my friend confirmed this is incorrect - if they discover the car is truly a race car(not just your street car you take to performance events)they will not cover it.

I agree, if you wanted to just "not tell them" it was a race car, and insure it with basic liability(or even full-coverage), they would likely never know otherwise. But if you tried to get a stated-value policy, they would know from the pictures what was up & deny coverage.

Huh. I didn't really pursue it, but I did briefly discuss it with my agent a few years ago as a What If thing. That was my understanding of it at the time. Of course, policy could have changed, or I just could have been wrong.
Aug. 22, 2008 12:35 p.m. mikeatrpi New Reader

ddavidv wrote:

My BMW is insured with State Farm liability only.

The one I work for, who is famous for a lizard-like spokesman,

Interesting that you don't insure your own vehicles with your employer. Any particular reason why? I'm a customer of the lizard-like variety...
Aug. 22, 2008 12:41 p.m. Salanis Dork

Take a look at the language for the specific exceptions in your policy. I use AAA because what my policy doesn't cover is something like, "timed speed competitions." Or something along those lines, but doesn't say anything about race tracks. Presumably, it would still be able to cover an HPDE since it is neither competitive or timed. I'm sure I'd be non-renewed if I ever put in a claim for something that happened at a track, but I'd be able to do it once.
Aug. 22, 2008 12:56 p.m. Brian Dork

mikeatrpi wrote:

ddavidv wrote:

My BMW is insured with State Farm liability only.

The one I work for, who is famous for a lizard-like spokesman,

Interesting that you don't insure your own vehicles with your employer. Any particular reason why? I'm a customer of the lizard-like variety...

I can't speak foor ddavidv, but I won't use the lizard because they (used to?) give away laser speed guns to police departments. That tells me that they aren't the right company for me.

I read about it in C/D years ago. The article is not online as far as I know. You can google for anecdotal support of the story.

-Brian
Aug. 22, 2008 2:53 p.m. njansenv New Reader

Locally (Ontario, Canada), insurers have been found dropping anyone who they discover participates in local auto-x. Auto-xers are high risk. They've also been known to deny coverage after looking at the (modified) vehicle. I believe there was a case near Ottawa in which a local hit a deer in a cage equipped Subaru. Claim denied.

Nathan
Aug. 22, 2008 5:08 p.m. Jack SuperDork

Since you mentioned Parrish-Heacock. . . . .

Since Dave Parrish passed away several years ago, they have changed dramatically. It was just Parrish back then. After he passed away, it became Parrish-Heacock. Now it's just Heacock and they will no longer allow even occassional drives to work in a classic car. A couple of times a year is all I wanted.

I just switched to Hagerty this year, after about 12 years with Heacock. I just saved some money on my classic car insurance too.

Jack TR's 3&8
Aug. 22, 2008 5:09 p.m. billy3esq Dork

Salanis wrote:

Take a look at the language for the specific exceptions in your policy. I use AAA because what my policy doesn't cover is something like, "timed speed competitions." Or something along those lines, but doesn't say anything about race tracks. Presumably, it would still be able to cover an HPDE since it is neither competitive or timed. I'm sure I'd be non-renewed if I ever put in a claim for something that happened at a track, but I'd be able to do it once.

My policy is at the other end of the spectrum. It excludes something like "any event on a course not open to the public intended to test the performance or abilities of driver or vehicle." "Test" is an interesting word, but I wouldn't try to make a claim for something on track.

Incidentally, my homeowner's policy (with the same company) excludes "discharge of a nuclear weapon, whether intentional or accidental." How do you accidentally discharge a nuclear weapon?
Aug. 22, 2008 5:12 p.m. Salanis Dork

I like the fact that I'm covered when drive 100mph at the track, but not 40mph at an auto-x.
Aug. 22, 2008 5:38 p.m. iceracer Reader

I have my ZX2/SR Licensed and insured with full coverage. I have been running track days, auto cross, hill climbs and ice race it. I'm sure I would not be covered for an on track crash but the others I might be able to hedge a little.
Aug. 22, 2008 11:46 p.m. exST165 New Reader

njansenv wrote:

Locally (Ontario, Canada), insurers have been found dropping anyone who they discover participates in local auto-x. Auto-xers are high risk. They've also been known to deny coverage after looking at the (modified) vehicle. I believe there was a case near Ottawa in which a local hit a deer in a cage equipped Subaru. Claim denied.

Nathan

I phoned up a local specialty insurer and specifically asked if they would insurer my project car for transit to/from events and was told no, and if they suspect that a car they insure is being used for that purpose it will be dropped.

I keep wondering how the performance rally folks in Ontario get their cars insured as they have to make transit stages on public roads.

I would just like to be able to drive my project car to the local auto-x or a track for a lapping day and then drive home. I have given up and traded in my Integra for a Pathfinder as the Pathfinder has the towing capacity to haul the project. And it just cost me over $70 to fill up the tank. Double the cost for the priviledge of driving a barge, that stings.

Thomas
Aug. 23, 2008 1:13 a.m. suprf1y New Reader

njansenv wrote:

Locally (Ontario, Canada), insurers have been found dropping anyone who they discover participates in local auto-x. Auto-xers are high risk. They've also been known to deny coverage after looking at the (modified) vehicle. I believe there was a case near Ottawa in which a local hit a deer in a cage equipped Subaru. Claim denied.

Nathan

Just like anything else. There are bad agents who abuse the system. I've heard the stories, but my experience has been quite the opposite.
Aug. 23, 2008 9:07 a.m. z31maniac HalfDork

Please guys, read your policies, talk to your agents and call around to many different insurance carriers.

There are alot of misinformation and assumptions in this thread.

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