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Sept. 4, 2009 3:20 p.m. famous New Reader

Hey everyone,

I know I have read somewhere in the history of my GRM subscription an article on what to watch out for for when buying an old Triumph Spitfire, but an hours search through my "library-o-GRMs", and some quality time with the search function here on the web site haven't netted me the results I wanted. I also tried the Classic Motorsports site (because I have been known to buy them on the newstand while travelling, read them about three times, then hand them to another road warrior with nothing to read), and saw Tommy Suddards project, but couldn't find the "what to look for" article I know I read somehwhere.

Any pointers?

Thanks

Mark
Sept. 4, 2009 3:49 p.m. aeronca65t HalfDork

One thing to do with a Spitfire is to check "crankshaft thrust". This can be an issue with the Spitfire engine (indeed, ALL Triumph engines, including TR6, GT6 etc). Fortunately, it's not an expensive or complicated job to deal with.

To get an idea of the crank thrust, park the car in neutral, engine OFF (use wheel chocks to prevent it from rolling). Grab the front crankshaft pulley and pull it forward and backward. There should be almost NO noticable "play". The maximum play (or "thrust") is about 0.012" (or about 3 or 4 thicknesses of normal paper).

If you feel that there is noticable play, you may need to buy or borrow a dial gage and investigate further. Check some of the Triumph forums and search for "thrust washers".

As I say, the repair is fairly simple and, will add many miles of life to your engine (but if you ignore it, the damage can be very serious).

The 1300 engine is generally considered the best. The newer, long stoke 1500 is sort of a dog (although I've have one in my racer for the last 50+ race weekends )

Also, front suspension trunions/bushing can wear out....look for looseness.

And, the u-joints and bearings on the rear halfhafts (axles) often are worn. Be sure diff mounting bolts are OK. And inspect the single rear leaf spring for cracks.

All Brit cars have rust issues, but the Spit has a separate frame, so it may be easier to repair than a uni-body.

Some folks prefer the newer single-rail trans....but that's what I have in my race car and I've killed two already.
Sept. 4, 2009 8:23 p.m. Jensenman MegaDork

What aeronca said. Different years have some different quirks, the later (76-up) cars probably have the fewest body/suspension weirdness issues but the 1500 motor used from 1973 to 1980 has been known to bust cranks. BTDT. The latest (79-80) are also the heaviest with those ginormous black bumpers.

The early cars (62-70) are the 'purest' and IMHO the prettiest. They are also like tin cans, lots of road noise etc. If you like that body style, the 1968-1970 is again IMHO the one to go for. 1962-1967 had 1147 cc and 1298 cc motors with 'siamesed' heads, not the best breathing design. 1968-1969 would be the best of the early cars, they have the 1298cc motor with the dual port head and twin SUs. The 1970 was dual port head but single Stromberg carb (which continued on 1298 and 1500 US cars till the end of production). That's not insurmountable, eBay has the Brit twin carb setups all the time. Downside: these have the early swing axle setup which can lead to some really weird things at times. Mk 1 and 2: Mk 3. Notice the bumpers are much higher on the car.

IMHO the best Spitfires (ducks incoming!!!!!) are the 1971-72 Mk IV 1300 cars. They had the 1298cc dual port motor (single Stromberg but that can be fixed), the swing axle problems had been 'fixed', they were much less prone to handling weirdness. They are lighter than the late cars and have better interiors than the early ones.

All of them have crappy sound insulation and a cardboard (yes, cardboard!) transmission tunnel which does very little to keep engine heat out. There are some nice ABS plastic ones which help tremendously with that.

The cars are chimp simple to work on, the goofiest thing is the front suspension lower 'trunnion' which uses 90 weight gear oil. But it has a grease fitting. So people grease them and the trunnions go bad. If you encounter a stiff steering Spitfire that's probably what's causing the stiffness.
Sept. 4, 2009 9:03 p.m. spitfirebill Dork

These two guys are spot on. I've got a 64 and an 80 (which isn't running yet). The 64 is truly a tin can, but a fun tin can. I'm hoping the 80 will be my road car.

Spitfires must have some of the most poorly constructed seats I've ever seen. I have yet to see one for sale that has decent seats in it.
Sept. 4, 2009 9:18 p.m. Dr. Hess PowerDork

Here's Dennis, our club photographer:

He put a new rear suspension setup on the car just before this trackday. It cut 6 seconds off his lap time (about 1.5 minutes/lap). He busted a crank a few months ago. He has well over 100K miles on that car and it's his daily driver. Original transmission, unbelieveable as it is.
Sept. 4, 2009 11:36 p.m. irish44j New Reader

when looking for a spitfire, make sure to find one with a fastback, two extra cylinders, and bulge on the bonnet....
Sept. 5, 2009 12:08 a.m. walterj Dork

That made my wig fly up in the air, do a 360 and land right back on my head. there was a noise like "BOING". I gotta get one of those.

irish44j wrote:

when looking for a spitfire, make sure to find one with a fastback, two extra cylinders, and bulge on the bonnet....
Sept. 5, 2009 8:12 a.m. Dr. Hess PowerDork

My very first car was one of those, irish44j. NEVER AGAIN!!!
Sept. 5, 2009 8:35 a.m. MadScientistMatt Dork

spitfirebill wrote:

Spitfires must have some of the most poorly constructed seats I've ever seen. I have yet to see one for sale that has decent seats in it.

Mine had pretty decent seats when I found it. They were out of a Miata. Didn't look out of place in it at all.

One thing to look out for is wiring gremlins. Stock wiring harness has only three fuses in it, and some of the circuits have neither fuses nor fuseable links. That includes the headlights - the Spit I have had the wires to the headlights fray against the hood, toasted half the wiring harness. An even scarier thing about the wiring is that it gives you the impression a drunken lemur could improve on it... which results in quite a few of them looking as if the previous owner had simply turned a drunken lemur loose under the hood with lamp cords and wire nuts to make such improvements.
Sept. 5, 2009 9:06 a.m. toddgreene New Reader

Look for rust in floor in corners behind the seats. Feel under the car for this. A car that has perfectly rust-free rockers and trunk can have this rust. It's under the carpet in an area where the owner may never know it is there. The top might have a slight leak, water settles to this low spot and the carpet holds it in.

Todd
Sept. 5, 2009 4:10 p.m. Ian F HalfDork

walterj wrote:

That made my wig fly up in the air, do a 360 and land right back on my head. there was a noise like "BOING". I gotta get one of those.

How about one with the 2 extra cylinders and a top that goes down?
Sept. 5, 2009 6:05 p.m. porksboy Dork

Be prepared for the so called "experts" to ask you why you would play with a Spitfire.

I stopped by the recomended alignment shop that is 30+ miles away because they were familiar with LBC's. When the owner asked me that question I had the answer I was looking for.

He will have to find someone else to give him money for aligning their cars. I will just do it myself with strings.
Sept. 5, 2009 9:17 p.m. irish44j New Reader

toddgreene wrote:

Look for rust in floor in corners behind the seats. Feel under the car for this. A car that has perfectly rust-free rockers and trunk can have this rust. It's under the carpet in an area where the owner may never know it is there. The top might have a slight leak, water settles to this low spot and the carpet holds it in.

Todd

also the batter trays have notoriously bad drainage and tend to rust out. I've seen more than one GT6/spit have the battery fall through into the passengers footwell!
Sept. 5, 2009 9:18 p.m. irish44j New Reader

Dr. Hess wrote:

My very first car was one of those, irish44j. NEVER AGAIN!!!

That's like saying "my first girlfriend was a bombshell supermodel who was extremely high-maintenance and an emotional wreck.....never again. Because a GT6 is sexy as hell but high maintenane and an emotional wreck(ing ball)"
Sept. 5, 2009 9:23 p.m. irish44j New Reader

MadScientistMatt wrote:

spitfirebill wrote:

Spitfires must have some of the most poorly constructed seats I've ever seen. I have yet to see one for sale that has decent seats in it.

Mine had pretty decent seats when I found it. They were out of a Miata. Didn't look out of place in it at all.

One thing to look out for is wiring gremlins. Stock wiring harness has only three fuses in it, and some of the circuits have neither fuses nor fuseable links. That includes the headlights - the Spit I have had the wires to the headlights fray against the hood, toasted half the wiring harness. An even scarier thing about the wiring is that it gives you the impression a drunken lemur could improve on it... which results in quite a few of them looking as if the previous owner had simply turned a drunken lemur loose under the hood with lamp cords and wire nuts to make such improvements.

Best move for Spit (and GT6) wiring is just to rip it all out and start with a new (upgraded) harness. Matt is 100% correct.

As to seats, Matt is right again. Miata seats, though a tight fit, do fit, and do not look out of place. They're a similar shape to the early 70s Spits/GT6s stock seats. unfortunately, the ones I got had "Miata" stitched into the headrests (which have stereo speakers, by the way) and I had to cover them up with some strategicall-placed patches

OEM vs. Miata
Sept. 5, 2009 9:40 p.m. toddgreene New Reader

porksboy wrote:

Be prepared for the so called "experts" to ask you why you would play with a Spitfire.

Because with dual control arms and coilovers up front and an independent rear with tube shocks, they were light years ahead of the other Little Brits.

The guy must be an MG mechanic
Sept. 5, 2009 10:37 p.m. irish44j New Reader

toddgreene wrote:

porksboy wrote:

Be prepared for the so called "experts" to ask you why you would play with a Spitfire.

Because with dual control arms and coilovers up front and an independent rear with tube shocks, they were light years ahead of the other Little Brits.

The guy must be an MG mechanic

don't forget rotoflex....so far ahead of its time that other cars STILL don't use it
Sept. 6, 2009 8:24 a.m. Dr. Hess PowerDork

irish44j wrote: That's like saying "my first girlfriend was a bombshell supermodel who was extremely high-maintenance and an emotional wreck.....never again. Because a GT6 is sexy as hell but high maintenane and an emotional wreck(ing ball)"

No, it would be more like saying "my first girlfriend was somewhat attractive, but so unstable, expensive/high maintenance, fragile, crazy, dangerous, and a bad bang that I decided being butt-berkeleyed by funny boys for the rest of my life would be far better than ever having to be around one of those again."
Sept. 6, 2009 11:18 a.m. irish44j New Reader

In reply to Dr. Hess:

IDK, In 30 years mine has not once left me or my father (the originl owner) by the side of the road, except the two times it was run off the road by trucks who didn't see it in their mirrors on the highway! All stock handling is less than stellar. But a few tweaks make it solid and predictable. Having a roto rear end doesn't hurt. Even 10 years ago when I drove it in college, recklessly 99% of the time, I still made it through without any issues. Stiffer springs and sways and better wheel/tire offset/size make it an entirely new car.

Now, a stock Mk1...that is indeed scary handling.

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