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Which of BMW’s beloved 3 Series makes the best racing companion?
Did some research on turboing Ford inline 6's recently. I said "Self, you will most likely never be able to afford a V8 Mustang in this life thanks to Barrett Jackson. What about the I6 powered cars that most people turn their nose up at? Including your own biased self."
So I checked it out. There is some serious power to be gained there and boatloads of torque. I brought up this point in another thread and was told:
tuna55 wrote:Xceler8x wrote: Turns out that I6's have torque characteristics like diesels. Not much hp but plenty of twisting power.
I agree with your original post, but I am making it my life's work to stop people when they say this and point out that it's a myth.
I think the Aussies have a leg up on us on this one.
Although I'm not sure it deals with turbos.
The 270 in my comet has more go juice than I thought it would. Its a fun engine with stupidly cheap parts.
Don't bother unless you have the Ozzie cross-flow head.
The 300 I-6 may be a good turbo candidate, but I don't really know.
A turbocharged 300 would produce massive torque, but with its 3.98" stroke would be RPM-limited. Nothing at all wrong with that if that's what you're after. It'd make a great engine in a tow vehicle. If you want something with more RPM capability you might want to look at the 240, which only has 3.18" stroke. That's still a lot of rotating mass, though. Much more than in, say, a BMW six. This would reduce throttle response since all that rotating mass has to accelerate and then decelerate.
With a bigger than stock cam I'd bet a turbo 240 would have a wider usable power band than a 300, even if peak power would be lower.
The 300 was fuel injected in its final years, and an F-150 with the injected 300 was quicker than the 5.0 V8. There's clearly potential there.
I'm always amazed at people recommending the I-6 for anything besides a truck. Sure it's bulletproof, but It weighs more than a big block V8 and only revs to about 5 grand.
The smaller 6s have some potential with a turbo. You could do a low-boost suck-through design on the cheap and get the thing to reasonable power levels. Don't expect Aussie DOHC levels of power or refinement, but they can do alright. Although for the trouble, you might just be better off taking a 5.0 out of a later stang. If you want to go all flight-o-fancy on it, throw in a Chevy Atlas inliner. With work (I won't pretend that it's just a little) you've got stock LSX power levels in a very cool package.
In reply to Xceler8x:
It's not that the I6 is bad, nor that a V8 of equal size has any super merit, it's just that the cubes dictate everything, whether they are spread across 4, 6, or 8. Most I6s have some super long strokes and some iffy heads and are therefore going to be more low end motors and are cammed as such.
There is an article about a guy in a Maverick with a swapped 300 I6 running mid 10's in Car Craft for less than 5k I think. I'll send you the issue if you want (or I could scan it in and E-mail it, which makes more sense).
I say go for it. A turbo I6 would be pretty neat, and packaging the exhaust is way easier.
I was hoping this was about someone who got the turbo I6 from an Aussie FPV Falcon and wanted to put it into a Mustang or P71.
Link to the owners of a 10 sec 1/4 mile Falcon with a turbo 250 I6. Motor porn from the Falcon article.
Link to a 69 Mustang turbo I6 built by Modified Ford and Mustang mag.
Motor porn from the article.
In reply to Xceler8x:
Yes, but this guy bought a 300, changes the valve springs, the oil pump and pan, and then ran 10's with it in a turbo - no other motor mods. That's the interesting part.
tuna55 wrote: Most I6s have some super long strokes and some iffy heads and are therefore going to be more low end motors and are cammed as such.
Most? With BMW as one of THE biggest manufacturers of automotive I6's in recent years, I'm not so sure that is true.
As an aside, don't the old 'stang 6-bangers have wimpier brakes and rear-ends than the V8s? Of course you'd want to upgrade to discs regardless, but it's another thing to consider.
kreb wrote: I'm always amazed at people recommending the I-6 for anything besides a truck. Sure it's bulletproof, but It weighs more than a big block V8 and only revs to about 5 grand.
I wouldn't be so sure about that.
It might not be grassroots but it is ingenious, and competitive.
The 250 I6 in my Chevelle has a draw through turbo set up off a Firebird 301 on it. I was only running 5psi of boost, but it was still enough torque to slip the clutch in 3rd. My ultimate plan for it is a turbocharged Vortec 4200 I6. That is a distant project though. I say do it, different is good.
Just buy a six cylinder Mustang, do a 5 lug swap and drop a 302 in it and be done. It can still be done pretty easily/cheaply. There are tons of cheap old Mustangs in Minneapolis and other parts of the midwest...but Minneapolis is a gold mine.
there are some people with f150's that have turboed their 300s and they are kinda crazy cheap , simple and make real decent hp and awesome, badass, hairy chested tq , i remember someone that did 5.0 h.o injectors, a .60 trim , aftermarket fuel pump and without intercooling or ecu tuning was doing around 300hp and almost 600tq ... spinning it to 6700 rpm....
tuna55 wrote: In reply to Xceler8x: Yes, but this guy bought a 300, changes the valve springs, the oil pump and pan, and then ran 10's with it in a turbo - no other motor mods. That's the interesting part.
I got that issue, and that build was truly awesome. It really is just a stock JY I-6 with a JY turbo doing 10's.
I had one of these inline 6's in a van I used to own, it had a 4 speed and was a hoot to drive. I chopped the van up in little pieces and scrapped it but kept the engine to sell it. Unfortunately it took for ever, I even advertised it on Old Skool Rodz website because I thought it would make a cool little hotrod engine. Finally someone else agreed and bought it. I wish I still had the damn thing.
Roush apparently know how to force-feed a Ford 300.
This is in the Posies 1947 Chevy Fleetliner
BTW, Clifford's stuff is WAAAAYYY overpriced.
If you want to know just about everything there is to know about Ford 300 high performance, check out the HAMB and look for posts by a fellow who goes by "The frenchtown flyer"
I had a fairmont a few cars ago with the old 200 cube inline six you will probably find in a classic mustang. The 144-200 engines are considered 'small block' sixes, the 250 is based on the 200 but taller and with a different transmission bolt pattern, and the 240-300 are 'big block' sixes. All are quite bullet proof and torquey.
The biggest problem on a small block six is the horrible cylinder head design with all of the intake and exhaust ports on the same side, and an integrated intake manifold. An aluminum head has since been designed and built but the aussie head can be found for cheap from time to time as well.
This site was good a few years back for tech http://fordsix.com/forum/
One thing that I dig about 6s in general is that if you want to build home-brewed intakes, turbos and what not, there's plenty of room, and it's not a shoehorn job.
From what I've compiled in various magazine articles, online forums and such, is that you can build a pretty stout 300, using alot of Ford parts bin stuff.
Supposedly, 390 pistons fit inside a stock 300 bore. You can find these pistons in higher compression, or possibly even lower for boost applications. Also, I've heard of people using a 240 head for its smaller combustion chamber, this improving NA compession ratios. Comp makes better bumpsticks for 'em, and I know there's all sorts of header and manifold options for em still around.
Theres an early Maverick in this month's Car Craft that you should check out. As much as I hate to promote other magazines, it's a pretty killer car.
It's hard to beat seven main bearings, where most I6's have four. They're tough as nails, and are my favorite I6, right there with the Slant six, also very much bulletproof.
Buy this one
BoostedBrandon wrote: It's hard to beat seven main bearings, where most I6's have four. They're tough as nails, and are my favorite I6, right there with the Slant six, also very much bulletproof.
They've had seven main bearings in pretty much every I6 in the last 40 years.
My 235 and 261 Chevies are 4-main engines but the next generation 230, 250, 292 are all 7 bearing engines.
Small and large Ford six are 7 bearings, all the Toyota sixes I've worked on are.
4-bearing engines are a thing of the past.
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