I did some brake work on the Intrepid this weekend, and I have to say that it was really painless. It's almost like someone thought about the process and designed the components with occasional pad and rotor changes in mind. Everything was easy to get to, the pads feature little clips so you don't need three hands, and you only have to remove the part that you are working on. In most other cars that I work on, it seems as though they were designed to be built at the factory once, and never touched again. Why else would you have to drop the entire motor to get to the oil filter??? Anyone else notice things well thought out on their car?
1
2
3
-
Oct. 6, 2008 10:01 a.m. pinchvalve SuperDork
-
Oct. 6, 2008 10:24 a.m. iceracer Reader
I had a Dodge K car once. I could change the oil and filter without jacking the car up.
-
Oct. 6, 2008 10:44 a.m. Woody Dork
It takes longer to remove the rear wheels on a Volvo 850 than it does to change the brake pads.
-
Oct. 6, 2008 10:49 a.m. confuZion3 HalfDork
The only thing 'merican cars confuse me with is their seemingly random usage of metric and empiracle (sp?) bolts and screws. You're taking off an air box and you have 3 3/8" in bolts and one, uh, 11mm?
Oddly enough, my Z3 is pretty straight-forward for almost all maintenance. Even when my water pump exploded and destroyed everything around it, it was still easy to replace. Those cars are built so that the dealer can do a job that is estimated for 9 hours in just 25 minutes and still bill you the full $900.00 for labor and $15 for the part.
-
Oct. 6, 2008 10:52 a.m. integraguy Reader
Part of the reason why this may have been so painless, could be that the car in question was a "clean sheet" design. It seems that when Detroit designs a newer version of an existing product, attempts are made to cheapen the old design. This is made worse when parts from an entirely different car design are "borrowed" for the new car.
As far as Japanese designs/engineers....I believe (I could be wrong) that when engineers "live and breathe" small cars, they are better able to produce a design that isn't so comprimized (sp?). Case in point? The Ford Escort. The American version was so "Americanized" compared to the "Euro" version, the only option it lacked as a factory vinyl roof...it most have driven the marketing dept. nuts. Another example? The Ford Focus. The first few years was a design of Ford's global engineering. The "facelift" in '06 and the new model? Products of Dearborn.
-
Oct. 6, 2008 10:57 a.m. PHeller Reader
Wheel studs on VW's and BMW as compared to lug nuts...
but those aren't Japanese issues.
-
Oct. 6, 2008 10:57 a.m. fastEddie Dork
Changing the oil in my Max is 100x easier than in the Contour. Just jack her up enough to take off the front passenger side wheel and bam - right there is the oil filter and drain plug. I could probably even do it without jacking and taking off the wheel if I wanted to.
-
Oct. 6, 2008 11:28 a.m. neon4891 Dork
I don't miss dealing with oil filter location on hondas. But what about 3.1 W bodies. the washer fluid is over the battery and you need to remove an engine mount and pry it forward to do the alternator.
The only easy thing with neons in the engine compartment is the oil change. And the front brakes are strair forward, I have yet to work on the rear disks
-
Oct. 6, 2008 11:33 a.m. Salanis SuperDork
I hated doing work on my Crapillac Cimarron. That shouldn't surprise anyone.
The BMW is very easy to work on. I have never seen a car easier to access the oil filter. My only issue with it is that the front lip is too low to use the ramps I have. Working on the rear shocks of a Z3 is a huge pain, which is why I had someone else do it when I got the car.
I hate trying to access the oil filter on the Miata. Everything else is stupid easy.
-
Oct. 6, 2008 11:46 a.m. Carson Reader
I've had 3 Hondas ('82 Civic, '88 Prelude and '98 Accord) and despite horror stories of removing CV joints to get to the oil filter locations, I haven't had a problem with any of them. Sure they're under the intake against the firewall, but they're small diameter, easy to grab and short.
The dual side draft carbs on the Prelude are slammed up against the firewall on the back of the engine. That is a huge pain.
Vacuum hoses: what is it with Japanese engines and rat's nests of vacuum hoses?
-
Oct. 6, 2008 11:46 a.m. DirtyBird222 HalfDork
PHeller wrote:
Wheel studs on VW's and BMW as compared to lug nuts...
but those aren't Japanese issues.
I f'ing hate those with a passion. All of my bosses own VWs for some reason (working at Honda) and all ask me to work on them for some reason. Next time I'm going to ask them to rotate the tires just to see how big of a PITA it is so they pay me more when I work on them.
As far as Jap vs. American...you have to specify brand. Hondas are way easier to work on than Mitsus, Chevys are easier than Fords, and so on.
German engineering just baffles me sometimes. I guess they think making things more complex makes it better?
-
Oct. 6, 2008 12:05 p.m. confuZion3 HalfDork
Yeah, the Miata's oil filter location is difficult to deal with, but since it's a Miata, I am going to automatically write that off as a necessity: Mazda put it there because it made the car (lighter, faster, better balanced, more reliable, cuter, etc).
My sister's 1993 Camry had the oil filter right at the top of the engine on a section of plumbing. It was right there in your face. I loved that car.
-
Oct. 6, 2008 12:33 p.m. P71 Reader
Bad: Stupid Mopar FWD's with the battery located in front of the driver's front tire in the bottom of the damn fender that you had to take the wheel off to get too and it pelted with dirt/snow/rain/etc.
Good: Working on a rotary. Man everything is easy to reach!
Bad: Rear plugs on a 3800 W-Body
Worse: Rear plugs on a V6 SHO...
Easiest oil change ever is a KA24 Nissan pickup (4x4). Slid the creeper under, the oil drain and filter are right next to each other. No jack, no ramps, no special tools, just easy as eating pie.
-
Oct. 6, 2008 12:40 p.m. Nitroracer Dork
My old grand marquis and zephyr were very easy cars to work on, when they needed work at all. Simple parts and plenty of room. The fact that neither lived most of its life in the rust belt helped tremendously too.
My Nx2000, Miata, and Probe haven't all needed as much maintenance but the room you have to do it in is severely diminished. Regular belts and timing belts on the ford and nissan were a pain.
-
Oct. 6, 2008 12:51 p.m. shuttlepilot New Reader
PHeller wrote:
Wheel studs on VW's and BMW as compared to lug nuts...
but those aren't Japanese issues.
On a E46 BMW, they use the wheel bolt holes as "the" access point to adjust the drum parking brake in the rear. The bentley ( with a tiny little picture) says stick a screwdriver in there and wiggle to adjust. I am not kidding.
The engineering on most american cars I've come across far exceed most of the stuff i see on my VW. I've seen lots of clever but poorly executed stuff on the VW. The american cars are not as fancy, but are usually decently rugged.
-
Oct. 6, 2008 1:43 p.m. 96DXCivic New Reader
The 300Z from the '80s is horrible to work on. The oil filter is hidden to where you have double jointed arms to get it out. And have you ever tried to change the spark plugs on a Dodge Stealth (a.k.a 3000GT)?
I think it varies company to company. Europe, the U.S.A. and Japan have all produce good, bad and o.k. cars.
-
Oct. 6, 2008 1:47 p.m. fiat22turbo SuperDork
P71: those FWD "Mopars" you speak of were Mitsubishi's. The real Chryslers had the batterys on a tray on top of the frame rail. So blame the Asian engineer that came up with that one and the American bean-counter that green-lighted it ;)
Girlfriend's 01 Highlander 2.4L is easy as pie to change the oil. toss the cardboard down, put the drain pan underneath, change the filter, etc. Takes about 20 minutes.
BTW, Neon rear brakes (at least the 1st gens were the same pieces used in the last gen K-based cars) and they last so long that by the time they need service they are a PITA to work on, especially in the rust belt.
-
Oct. 6, 2008 1:49 p.m. akamcfly New Reader
PHeller wrote:
Wheel studs on VW's and BMW as compared to lug nuts...
but those aren't Japanese issues.
some mazdas had them in the 80s and early 90s - well my festiva did....
-
Oct. 6, 2008 1:58 p.m. Jensenman UltimaDork
Sebrings and the like have the battery mounted down low inside the left front fender. I get at least 2 calls a week asking me where the damn thing is.
For straight unbolt and rebolt, US and Jap cars are about the same IMHO. German cars make little or no sense sometimes, like the aforementioned wheel bolt.
All 3 have electrical stuff that's goofy, although the Japanese aren't nearly as bad as the other two. Even they have their moments; when we were doing the engine wiring harness for the Dime, we modified a 240SX harness. There were splices inside the harnes that went every which way and for no discernible reason. For instance, IIRC the injector harness went forward to the power transistor, then back along the harness to the injectors.
I wound up removing about 30 extra feet of wire of all colors and descriptions.
VW would publish wiring diagrams with color codes, then the car wouldn't match the diagram and the colors would vary from car to car. The service tech line guys said that's the way they are, go by cavity numbers instead of color codes.
-
Oct. 6, 2008 1:59 p.m. Xceler8x Reader
confuZion3 wrote:
Yeah, the Miata's oil filter location is difficult to deal with, but since it's a Miata, I am going to automatically write that off as a necessity: Mazda put it there because it made the car (lighter, faster, better balanced, more reliable, cuter, etc).
Are you talking about a 1st Gen Miata? On my '93 I just reach in the engine from the top, grab the filter, spin it. Reverse to install. Drain plug is easy to access as well. No problems there.
The Mazdaspeed3 is different. Undercarriage tray. Catridge filter instead of a spin on. Much more hassle.
-
Oct. 6, 2008 2:06 p.m. Salanis SuperDork
I have a '94 Miata. I have to snake my arm under and around the intake manifold (I guess 'plenum' is the proper term).
I can reach my hand there, but I can twist with my arm or wrist. I'm pretty much limited to my finger strength to get the filter off.
-
Oct. 6, 2008 2:09 p.m. Osterkraut Reader
P71 wrote:
Easiest oil change ever is a KA24 Nissan pickup (4x4). Slid the creeper under, the oil drain and filter are right next to each other. No jack, no ramps, no special tools, just easy as eating pie.
My F-150 is even better. You don't even need the creeper, everything is maybe 18" back from the bumper!
-
Oct. 6, 2008 2:19 p.m. P71 Reader
fiat22turbo wrote: P71: those FWD "Mopars" you speak of were Mitsubishi's. The real Chryslers had the batterys on a tray on top of the frame rail. So blame the Asian engineer that came up with that one and the American bean-counter that green-lighted it ;)
Seriously? I didn't know the Cirrus was a Mitsu?
-
Oct. 6, 2008 2:21 p.m. P71 Reader
akamcfly wrote:
PHeller wrote:
Wheel studs on VW's and BMW as compared to lug nuts...
but those aren't Japanese issues.
some mazdas had them in the 80s and early 90s - well my festiva did....
Hehehehe... 1st Gen RX-7's!
-
Oct. 6, 2008 2:25 p.m. Keith UltraDork
confuZion3 wrote:
The only thing 'merican cars confuse me with is their seemingly random usage of metric and empiracle (sp?) bolts and screws. You're taking off an air box and you have 3 3/8" in bolts and one, uh, 11mm?
Try a 7/16" on that 11mm bolt :)
I seem to recall the previous Range Rover had metric, imperial and whitworth fasteners. Never had to work on one so I can't confirm, but those who own them do get many opportunities to work on them...
