Actually, yes some of it did come from Mitsu. Though the Avenger is a better example of Mitsu rebranding.
1
2
3
-
Oct. 6, 2008 2:29 p.m. fiat22turbo SuperDork
-
Oct. 6, 2008 2:45 p.m. GameboyRMH Dork
Neither of my cars are super hard. You need to be a contortionist to reach certain things in the AE92's engine bay and of course there's the infamous speedo gear which is far more easily broken than removed, and is made of a harder material than the non-replaceable plastic gear on the diff that powers it. One of the engine shields needs to come off to change the oil and it needs to be jacked up, but that's not so bad. The interior on the other hand seems to have been designed to be as frustrating as possible to work on.
The Samurai's dead simple to work on, you can just park it and change the oil, and you can take most of the car apart with a phillips screwdriver and a socket set (and allen keys for the soft top). The axles, diffs and steering systems are another story though. Everything needs pullers and specialty tools.
EDIT: Oh but all those handy easy-to-reach bolts and screws on the Samurai? Nearly impossible to replace if you lose/break them.
-
Oct. 6, 2008 2:46 p.m. confuZion3 HalfDork
Keith wrote:
confuZion3 wrote:
The only thing 'merican cars confuse me with is their seemingly random usage of metric and empiracle (sp?) bolts and screws. You're taking off an air box and you have 3 3/8" in bolts and one, uh, 11mm?
Try a 7/16" on that 11mm bolt :)
I seem to recall the previous Range Rover had metric, imperial and whitworth fasteners. Never had to work on one so I can't confirm, but those who own them do get many opportunities to work on them...
Haha. Right. I was referring to the sizes which are obviously metric that have no available conversions and vice versa.
The Miata I was referring to is the same as Salanis'. 1994 gen 1.5? It's accessible, but, to change the oil properly, the engine must be warm = burn! You also need to pretty much force your arm down the side of the engine bay under the intake and then use your fingers to get her off. I worry about what will happen when I need to use a wrench to get it off (it won't fit), but then I remember that I can hardly get the damned thing tight enough anyway! Like I said: Mazda probably had a good enough reason to do it this way: I will not question their prowess when it comes to the almighty MX-5.
The MX-6, however . . . anyone here ever work on one of them? Try changing an alternator on a V-6. A friend of mine unbolted the engine mounts and did all but lift the engine from the bay to change his. It didn't come out. He had to make a notch in the frame to get some clearance to get the bolt all the way out. (He burned up two alternators within 6 months thanks to his over-powered sterio).
-
Oct. 6, 2008 2:48 p.m. confuZion3 HalfDork
GameboyRMH wrote: You need to be a contortionist to reach certain things in the AE92's engine bay and of course there's the infamous speedo gear which is far more easily broken than removed, and is made of a harder material than the non-replaceable plastic gear on the diff that powers it.
Is the AE92 a Sentra, by any chance? My buddy has a 1990 Sentra (it's from around 1990 anyway) and to change the instrument illumination bulb, you need to unplug the speedo cable from the transmission. We have no idea how to do this.
-
Oct. 6, 2008 2:55 p.m. GameboyRMH Dork
confuZion3 wrote:
GameboyRMH wrote: You need to be a contortionist to reach certain things in the AE92's engine bay and of course there's the infamous speedo gear which is far more easily broken than removed, and is made of a harder material than the non-replaceable plastic gear on the diff that powers it.
Is the AE92 a Sentra, by any chance? My buddy has a 1990 Sentra (it's from around 1990 anyway) and to change the instrument illumination bulb, you need to unplug the speedo cable from the transmission. We have no idea how to do this.
Same thing on the AE92, plus the bulbs in the center console and gauge cluster have a nasty tendency to blow often and for no reason. There should be a connector that unscrews in the speedo cable somewhere between the firewall and the transmission.
Also I've read of some asinine maintenance procedures on American engines...one that needs the cylinder head to come off to change the spark plugs (A Jeep comes to mind?), a Chrysler single cam engine that needs the lifters adjusted while the engine is running, lots of stupidly placed oil filters, oil pickups that need to be welded onto the pump, and lots of engine internals that are simply hammered into place.
-
Oct. 6, 2008 3:00 p.m. psteav New Reader
Indeed, Sentras do suck. My SE-R was the most cramped engine bay I've ever been in. Thankfully pretty reliable, but what a pain if something did break.
Regarding the whole Metric/Imperial measures on one car: I helped a friend change the waterpump on his old Cougar one day. Aside from the fact that we did it in the mall parking lot on a 100 degree day (nothing ever breaks at home or in nice weather...) was the fact that we had to switch back and forth between a 12mm, 13 mm, and 1/2" socket continually. 1/2" is 12.54 mm, IIRC.
-
Oct. 6, 2008 3:42 p.m. Jensenman UltimaDork
British dumb access: the front driveshaft flange bolts on a Midget.
Japanese: the rotary oil filter right above the rear heater hose.
Oil and rubber doth not go well together.
German: the 'stacked shim' method of belt adjustment. That sorta made sense on the aircooled VW motors but it's just plain stupid on the water cooled ones.
American: the fuel filter inside the tank on the Grand Caravans, etc. Lifetime fuel filter, my azz. Or, price the combination fuel filter/pulse dampener on the 99-up Grand Cherokees. Maybe the water pump on the quad 4's. I mean, remove the rear engine mount to remove the water pump? Please.
-
Oct. 6, 2008 4:07 p.m. pigeon New Reader
BMW sells a tool to thread into one of the wheel stud holes to use to align/hand the wheel on when reinstalling it. Kind of ridiculous having to pay for that though - it ought to be included in the tool kit the car comes with.
On my E46 BMW I used an oil extractor, and with the filter right on top up front you could change the oil in a suit and not get a drop on you. I did it once. On my Miata my beef was not so much that the filter was difficult to reach (just crank the wheel all the way over one way, I forget which way, and reach up and through) but that you couldn't get the filter out with out spilling oil all over the place. The only "perfect" car to service so far has been my 750Li, it's still under the BMW full maintenance program :)
Scott
-
Oct. 6, 2008 6:17 p.m. noisycricket New Reader
pigeon wrote:
BMW sells a tool to thread into one of the wheel stud holes to use to align/hand the wheel on when reinstalling it. Kind of ridiculous having to pay for that though - it ought to be included in the tool kit the car comes with.
Matco sells them for $45 apiece.
Cripes, it's just a 12x1.5 for the "small" and 14x1.5 for the "large" bolts. I made my own out of disused inner tie rod ends. Early Golf work well for the 12x1.5 and the 14x1.5 I got from some GM product, but it's very common.
-
Oct. 6, 2008 6:36 p.m. Wally SuperDork
confuZion3 wrote:
The only thing 'merican cars confuse me with is their seemingly random usage of metric and empiracle (sp?) bolts and screws. You're taking off an air box and you have 3 3/8" in bolts and one, uh, 11mm?
I've heard alot of people complain about this but I've worked on everything after about 1980 with just metric tools. They still kept standard thread on the parts that screwed into the engine, but the heads were metric.
-
Oct. 6, 2008 6:41 p.m. Nashco SuperDork
I clicked on this thread hoping for a US vs Japanese Engineering Cage Match! Count me in for a cage match, sounds like a good fight.
Bryce
-
Oct. 6, 2008 6:46 p.m. Nashco SuperDork
Wally wrote:
confuZion3 wrote:
The only thing 'merican cars confuse me with is their seemingly random usage of metric and empiracle (sp?) bolts and screws. You're taking off an air box and you have 3 3/8" in bolts and one, uh, 11mm?
I've heard alot of people complain about this but I've worked on everything after about 1980 with just metric tools. They still kept standard thread on the parts that screwed into the engine, but the heads were metric.
If you consider a 5/16=8mm, 3/8=10ish?, 7/16"=11mm, 1/2"=13mm, 9/16"=14mm, 5/8=16mm, 11/16=17mm, 3/4=19mm,13/16=21mm, etc. then I guess you're right...they are metric heads. For the rest of us, it is a rough transition. I agree, it sucks, but the US automakers were trying to go metric without starting from scratch...this meant all new designs were metric, old ones remained. That's how you end up with a SBC with metric externals and standard internals. American motorcycles and heavy trucks are still using some parts that aren't metric, takes a heck of a long time to change over 100% of the parts on some of their products.
Bryce
-
Oct. 6, 2008 6:48 p.m. procainestart HalfDork
A friend and I just did the timing belt, etc. on his wife's VW Passat. Complete PITA: stupid stupid design details, and the absolute worst shop manual I have ever seen. The only good thing about the work was the endless jokes about "putting the car in the 'service position.'"
-
Oct. 6, 2008 7:29 p.m. RXBeetle New Reader
96DXCivic wrote:
omg my Z31 sucked to work on sometimes. My alternator went out which left me stranded in a strip mall parking lot. My mom came and ran me to the auto parts store for an alternator and I snagged my good jack/ jackstands. Yep alternator comes out from underneath only and is not a fast job especially laying on the ground while it rains. The timing belt took me the better part of a Saturday. It was pretty damn reliable though, I had 220K miles on it and beat the hell out of it. It would still get close to 30mpg on the highway too.The 300Z from the '80s is horrible to work on. The oil filter is hidden to where you have double jointed arms to get it out.
-
Oct. 6, 2008 8:19 p.m. ArtOfRuin Reader
I changed the transmission oil and fuel filter on my car last Saturday, and I noticed a lot of the parts in my Impreza's engine bay are pretty easy to get to. I could probably change the oil without having to jack the car up, the fuel filter is within easy reach from below, and I didn't have to jack the car that far up to change the transmission oil.
Then again, the spark plugs required some arm calesthenics (I'm flexible, it didn't bother me much) and the transmission dipstick/filler hole is way the hell in the car (I hacked up an old garden hose to use as a filler).
The main problems come from either stuck fasteners (transmission drain plug- a metal broom handle makes a good breaker bar), rusted fasteners (transmission mount bolts broke off trying to install a strut tower bar), or balky hoses (I had to hack apart the old fuel line hoses just to get them off).
The Subaru is is still easier to work on than my old Saab- I couldn't find anything in that car!
-
Oct. 6, 2008 8:49 p.m. bamalama New Reader
Why do most Japanese cars have a drain on the fuel tank, while US cars don't? Drives me friggin' crazy. Sure makes it a bitch to get 5 gallons of bad gas out of that $50 car when there's no drain!
Oh, and having to drop the tank to change fuel pumps on an American car vs. taking off a panel inside on a Japanese car. A 20 minute job turns into a six hour ordeal without the access panel.
-
Oct. 6, 2008 9:24 p.m. foxtrapper SuperDork
They've all got good and bad aspects. Ford has an excellent simple belt tensioning system for example. Volvo specializes in complicated tension and pulley aligments.
But yes, overall, I find japanese cars to be engineered with repairs in mind. Sometimes it's not obvious, but it's usually there.
-
Oct. 6, 2008 9:29 p.m. noisycricket New Reader
They don't figure on rust in Japan.
You still have to drop the tank to change the rusted out fuel lines that you will break when trying to remove the sending unit.
A paperclip in the fuel pump relay makes it really easy to remove fuel from a tank, BTW. GM for the longest time wired their fuel relays "backwards" (87 in, 30 out) so that you could apply power to the 87a pin and manually run the pump. (They provided a short pigtail) Lots of Chrysler products had a short "fuel test hose" that you could use to drain the tank after jumping the relay, if you didn't want to disconnect hoses or pop something onto the fuel pressure test port.
Japanese companies, they put the drain plug in because they're bungholes and they bury the fuel pump relay in some inaccessible spot in the dash, or in the ECU.
-
Oct. 6, 2008 10:32 p.m. MCarp22 New Reader
P71 wrote: Seriously? I didn't know the Cirrus was a Mitsu?
The only thing mitsu about the cirrus was the anemic 2.5 V6.
-
Oct. 6, 2008 11:13 p.m. 96DXCivic New Reader
foxtrapper wrote:
But yes, overall, I find japanese cars to be engineered with repairs in mind. Sometimes it's not obvious, but it's usually there.
Except sometimes, I swear they were designed with Japanese sized people in mind to work on the cars. Not my 6'4" frame.
-
Oct. 7, 2008 2:36 a.m. geomiata Reader
on the geo, i can take apart the entire engine bay with a 12, a 14, a philips and a hammer. true story.
-
Oct. 7, 2008 3:21 a.m. scottgib New Reader
The new Nissan Sentra has great access to most everything. Completely new in 2007 and designed by Puegot. Very open engine bay.
-
Oct. 7, 2008 6:13 a.m. Duke Dork
Well, the worst-engineered, hardest to work on car I ever owned was an old Toyota Supra. That thing ate headgaskets like bubble gum, and all the FI and emissions plumbing ran randomly back and forth over the head. By the 3rd HG I realized it was actually cheaper and easier to buy a yard engine and just replace it whole rather than tear it down in the car. The rear disc brakes/parking brake were a travesty to try to even replace the pads. I drove it for the last 6 months of its life with no rear pads at all.
The worst-engineered car I ever owned was a Ford Fairmont. Easy enough to work on, but DAMN it needed something all the time.
The Neons were not hard, just annoying. Most of it was down to the engine bay packaging and 'cab forward' design, meaning you needed to be an anorexic muscle builder to get a usable wrench on a lot of things. Horizontal oil filter FTL, though. Both had rear discs so I don't know about the drums.
My wife's TSX, while I love it, is looking to be a PITA. Certainly the K24 has its oil filter in a place where there is simply no way to remove it without getting a facefull. On the Neons you couldn't avoid dumping it on the ground, but on the TSX you can't avoid dumping it on your chest. Brakes are coming up someday and we'll see how easy they are.
My 325i has been a joy to service though I haven't done anything too major. Oil changes are a snap - top mounted cartridge filter FTW. I did complete front brake jobs, pads and rotors, in the parking lot at work on my lunch hour, then did my buddy's wife's identical car the next day. Rears weren't much harder once I learned that little trick about backing off the parking brake through the lug hole in the hub. Once you know that it's easy and effective - much easier than backing off the PB on my Caravan through a little slot on the back side of the dust shield.
-
Oct. 7, 2008 6:28 a.m. Woody Dork
The day I picked up my new WRX at the dealer, I opened the hood and said to my father, "I can't wait to change the alternator on this car!". It's right on top of the engine.
My Toyota Tacoma has its oil filter on top of the engine, upside down, with a cast aluminum funnel around it. It looked like a great idea, but you need to attach a small hose to the funnel and its a pain to get it snaked through there.
-
Oct. 7, 2008 7:46 a.m. Jensenman UltimaDork
bamalama wrote:
Why do most Japanese cars have a drain on the fuel tank, while US cars don't? Drives me friggin' crazy. Sure makes it a bitch to get 5 gallons of bad gas out of that $50 car when there's no drain!
Oh, and having to drop the tank to change fuel pumps on an American car vs. taking off a panel inside on a Japanese car. A 20 minute job turns into a six hour ordeal without the access panel.
On our Thunderbird LeMons car, we dropped the tank and cut an access hole in the trunk floor so we could swap the fuel pump quickly if the need arose. The stupid part: we kept meaning to make a cover for the hole and kept forgetting. The morning of tech inspection, we opened the trunk and realized we had forgotten.
We didn't have any sheet metal, so we Sawzalled a hole in the trunk lid and used that to make a cover for the fuel pump access hole. 
