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carguy123
carguy123 UltimaDork
2/13/13 8:45 p.m.

You guys may know all about this car, but I just discovered it.

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=161146

This idea has merit.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
2/13/13 9:18 p.m.

There have been a few of them over the years - I think Alfadriver's posted details on one that actually came out of the Ford skunkworks. Thing is, it's not that much less work than a V8.

belteshazzar
belteshazzar UberDork
2/13/13 9:39 p.m.

it'd have to be pretty easy to do and utilize an awfully cheap donor

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
2/13/13 10:13 p.m.

I dont think its all that hard and the donor cars are often found for under a grand. But really, all you need is the motor in this case.

Claire keeps it easier somewhat by not messing with the stock manifold. She uses Triumph Triple throttles which are spaced nicely for a KL. The first "KLiata" used gixxer 1000 throttles.

If someone had some fab skills and was a good shopper, you could do this swap for about $2k including engine management.

carguy123
carguy123 UltimaDork
2/13/13 10:40 p.m.

The sound is just awesome. Reminds me of an older F1 car.

While I wouldn't kick a V8 Miata out of bed, I think I'd rock the power/powerband of the V6 more. It wouldn't show when I got all excited and messed up nearly as much as a big V8.

Sometimes when I'm excited I can't control all the parts to my body as well as I'd like to and my right foot has this jabbing motion I've never been able to cure it of.

jungle
jungle New Reader
3/7/13 6:37 p.m.

I have seen a VW VR6 one....

alfadriver
alfadriver PowerDork
3/7/13 6:43 p.m.
Keith Tanner wrote: There have been a few of them over the years - I think Alfadriver's posted details on one that actually came out of the Ford skunkworks. Thing is, it's not that much less work than a V8.

While the engine from the Ford Miata came from a Lincoln, it's basically the same motor in the Taurus. So there's your cheap source. Very light v6.

dean1484
dean1484 UberDork
3/7/13 8:16 p.m.

I don't know why but I really like this. I mean there is something about those big valve covers with mazda on them that just seems to belong there.

I think the V6 mazda motors are underappreciated.

Were there any all alu mazda v6's?

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
3/7/13 8:24 p.m.

Yep you're looking at one.

dean1484
dean1484 UberDork
3/8/13 7:15 a.m.
Swank Force One wrote: Yep you're looking at one.

I did not read all the thread and I really don't know allot about the Mazda V6's. That is really cool!!!!

fanfoy
fanfoy Reader
3/8/13 8:48 a.m.

I'm sure Keith or someone more knowledgeable than me can answer that:

has anyone done a H27A swap into a Miata? And if not,, why?

To me, it seems like the perfect V6 swap for a Miata. It's already RWD, the engine can be found for peanuts, you could probably use the transmission too,....

What am I missing?

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
3/8/13 9:06 a.m.
fanfoy wrote: I'm sure Keith or someone more knowledgeable than me can answer that: has anyone done a H27A swap into a Miata? And if not,, why? To me, it seems like the perfect V6 swap for a Miata. It's already RWD, the engine can be found for peanuts, you could probably use the transmission too,.... What am I missing?

Probably because most people don't make the connection as to how similar the H27A is to the KL motors.

People who swap these things either A) want to keep it mazda B) want a V8 of some kind or C) are some Nissan drifto fanboi who wants an SR20 in everything.

You don't see much outside of those scenarios.

I'd like to see it done, and i'd like to know if the H27A is as "strong" as their KL counterparts.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
3/8/13 9:18 a.m.

Actually, everyone wants a swap that is unusual but has been fully figured out by someone else so they can just follow a cookbook.

I don't even know what a H27A is. Wikipedia says it's some sort of Suzuki mill - 185 V6 out of a sport ute. I'm personally of the opinion that if you're going to do a swap should give enough of a change to justify the effort. Any engine that doesn't make as much power as a relatively easily updated turbo four (a 185 hp Suzuki V6, for example) isn't worthwhile. It would be easier than an LS conversion because you could keep the stock rear, but that's like bragging that your supercharger makes so little additional power that you can keep the stock clutch.

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
3/8/13 9:33 a.m.
Keith Tanner wrote: Actually, everyone wants a swap that is unusual but has been fully figured out by someone else so they can just follow a cookbook. I don't even know what a H27A is. Wikipedia says it's some sort of Suzuki mill - 185 V6 out of a sport ute. I'm personally of the opinion that if you're going to do a swap should give enough of a change to justify the effort. Any engine that doesn't make as much power as a relatively easily updated turbo four (a 185 hp Suzuki V6, for example) isn't worthwhile. It would be easier than an LS conversion because you could keep the stock rear, but that's like bragging that your supercharger makes so little additional power that you can keep the stock clutch.

Well, the KL doesn't really give you the power you'd want, either. And that's fine. Stock vs. stock the only real advantage the H27A has is that it's slightly bigger, slightly torquey-er and probably an easier swap. (In theory, that is. The KL swap is fairly well documented at this point.)

Grossly simplified: The H27A is a 2.7 litre KL.

I'm with you in that i'm not sure the motor sway by itself is worth doing. Depends on personal goals. I wouldn't do it.

Buuuuutttt.... a turbo or supercharged KL > Turbo or supercharged BP, all day, every day. If the H27 functions as well under boost as the KL does, it could be a hot ticket. Motors are cheap, the swap could be easy (maybe?), could be a way to get a LOT of power with a lot of powerband, for cheaper than an LSx swap. Sure is a lot of "maybes" and "Ifs," though.

I certainly won't be the one to do the write up, but i'd love to see someone try it. The motors are pretty easy to find around here for under $500.

mtn
mtn PowerDork
3/8/13 9:45 a.m.

Really the only way I see this being worth it is if you happen to have a MIata with a blown engine sitting next to a totaled (Taurus/Grand Am/Camry/Whatever) that the engine is still in good shape. Otherwise, a V8 or forced induction is about the same price and is about the same level of difficulty.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
3/8/13 9:52 a.m.
Swank Force One wrote: I certainly won't be the one to do the write up, but i'd love to see someone try it.

See? You prove my point

By the time you've stuffed the motor in there, then gone to the trouble/weight of building a custom forced induction setup - how much money/effort have you really saved over the big engine option? You haven't saved any weight by the time you have turbo plumbing in there.

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
3/8/13 10:20 a.m.
Keith Tanner wrote:
Swank Force One wrote: I certainly won't be the one to do the write up, but i'd love to see someone try it.

See? You prove my point

By the time you've stuffed the motor in there, then gone to the trouble/weight of building a custom forced induction setup - how much money/effort have you really saved over the big engine option? You haven't saved any weight by the time you have turbo plumbing in there.

Well... i'll further prove it in that i wouldn't do the swap even if there was a write-up.

Money saved isn't really a fair comparison in my particular case, since i have no fabrication capabilities to speak of, so i'd have to compare me cobbling together some mounts for the V6 (I can handle a turbo setup/bribe Absurdflow to make me a set of his exhaust manifolds.) against buying a full-fledged LSx kit.

Not really fair for the LSx.

In the end as you say, it's all about being different, or maybe catering to a silly set of rules. (Possible advantage in SCCA SSM competition if done right.) Really the V8 swap is no different. In 99.99% of situations, you can go just as fast with a turbo BP, and often for cheaper.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
3/8/13 10:23 a.m.

It would be prefect in a Miata like this...

kurk9
kurk9 New Reader
3/8/13 10:32 a.m.

I wonder if someone swapped a v10 from the LFA into a miata. I love the sound of that rev happy engine.

ReverendDexter
ReverendDexter UberDork
3/8/13 10:33 a.m.

I don't want to see a Miata with a V6 swap, but I'd love to see Mazda just put one in there from the factory. I don't know if the 3.7L V6 would fit, but it'd be damn awesome if it did.

RossD
RossD UberDork
3/8/13 10:43 a.m.

Does Alfa make sweet V6s still? That will be the easy swap in the near future, at least for the miatas of the near future.

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
3/8/13 10:52 a.m.
kurk9 wrote: I wonder if someone swapped a v10 from the LFA into a miata. I love the sound of that rev happy engine.

o_O

kurk9
kurk9 New Reader
3/8/13 10:57 a.m.
Swank Force One wrote:
kurk9 wrote: I wonder if someone swapped a v10 from the LFA into a miata. I love the sound of that rev happy engine.

o_O

One can dream, right?

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
3/8/13 11:05 a.m.
Swank Force One wrote: In the end as you say, it's all about being different, or maybe catering to a silly set of rules. (Possible advantage in SCCA SSM competition if done right.) Really the V8 swap is no different. In 99.99% of situations, you can go just as fast with a turbo BP, and often for cheaper.

If the 99.9% is street driving, sure. But the V8 cars are definitely faster around our little kart track, even when compared to a 400+ hp BP.

Silly sets of rules do require silly solutions, this is definitely true.

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
3/8/13 11:05 a.m.
kurk9 wrote:
Swank Force One wrote:
kurk9 wrote: I wonder if someone swapped a v10 from the LFA into a miata. I love the sound of that rev happy engine.

o_O

One can dream, right?

True...

I suppose you have more imagination than me. If i had the V10 from an LFA, it'd probably be sitting in...

An LFA. And i'd be banging supermodels.

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