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alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
5/25/16 8:53 a.m.

I know a few people here have built some very minimalist Miatas out there- anyone have an idea how much they weigh?

Just the bare minimum that allows it to be on the street- lights, turn signals, wipers, and any required emissions stuff. No top, gutted interior, no HVAC, gutted doors, lightened pumpers, etc...

Just day dreaming.

OSULemon
OSULemon Reader
5/25/16 9:31 a.m.

DeathKart

For the most extreme example.

KyAllroad
KyAllroad UltraDork
5/25/16 9:32 a.m.

What generation?

An NA in STS trim can get right around 2,000 lbs. Gutting the interior, removing the top, and getting rid of side glass probably gets you to around 1,800.

DP Miata I heard are close to 1,700 but they don't have windshields.

Trackmouse
Trackmouse Dork
5/25/16 9:40 a.m.

I love when they remove the entire windscreen. Makes the Miata look even more like a soap bar.

Question: how legal is it to not have a windscreen?

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
5/25/16 9:45 a.m.

A lot of people who do minimalist cars don't use vehicle scales, they tend to estimate or add up what they removed. For example, gutting the interior, removing the top and getting rid of side glass estimated at 200 lbs when it's nowhere near that It's the equivalent of estimating horsepower by counting the stickers. Rarely does the finished product ever go on scales.

The Targa Miata, in 4 cylinder race trim, was right around 2150 wet. That's with a hardtop, full cage and a few undercar braces, but with some significant effort at dropping weight (without shelling out big money). It had lights, was weatherproof and had wipers. It had hood pins holding the trunk lid on, a trimmed wiring harness, the bumpers were just skins and the interior was as minimal as it gets.

http://targamiata.com/tags.php?tag=weight%20loss

There was a legit build of a a really light turbo Miata street racer in New York. He was at the point of gun drilling control arm bolts. I don't recall the exact number, but he was under 2000. I could probably find out details.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
5/25/16 9:45 a.m.
Trackmouse wrote: I love when they remove the entire windscreen. Makes the Miata look even more like a soap bar. Question: how legal is it to not have a windscreen?

Depends on the state. In Colorado, it's not an option unless it's an old man hot rod. Safety glass windshields are required.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
5/25/16 10:01 a.m.

STS is not far enough, the caged Miata without a body is too far (sort of).

I'm daydreaming of how light a Miata would be if it had the equivalent "stuff" as a 7, including w/s and wipers.

No heater or a/c, lighted bumpers, gutted doors- meaning cutting the door beam some. No air bags, etc.

I remember an article in a Miata magazine that someone did it on an NA, and got it really light. Again, we are talking beyond Street Prepared lightening, but still no body would see it as non-street legal.

On an interesting side note- while there are some anti-tampering laws for emissions hardware (some states enforce and check, other don't, and there are there ways...), I don't recall any laws for passenger safety tampering- removing air bags, bumpers, door beams, etc.. That I know of, at least.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin PowerDork
5/25/16 10:08 a.m.

DP min weight is just 1757lbs for a 1.6, but that allows windshield removal. I'd think you'd fall somewhere between there and CSP, where people are hitting low 1900s.

Yavuz
Yavuz Reader
5/25/16 10:21 a.m.

I had a 1996 Miata that I gutted pretty well. No top, side windows, interior trim, no HVAC at all, no radio, 9lb battery, scraped the sound deadening, etc. I had it corner weighted at 2040lbs with a full tank of fuel and stock driver and passenger seat. "Autocross weight" with a single Ultrashield seat and 1/4 tank of fuel was closer to 1950.

Andy Neuman
Andy Neuman HalfDork
5/25/16 10:56 a.m.

My $2012 challenge Miata weighed in at 1931 and it was about as stripped as you are talking about.

Apexcarver
Apexcarver PowerDork
5/25/16 11:08 a.m.

I have a friend who has a 1.8 down to 1979 with a hardtop on it, but with stock wheels and no gas in it. Still has windshield, side glass, etc.

No interior, light gutting on doors, no cage, early NA dash swap, seats, aftermarket steering wheel, gutted trunklid/hood, brake swap, Xidas, and a lot of attention to detail.

It still has a heater.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
5/25/16 11:28 a.m.

In reply to Andy Neuman:

yea, that is pretty close to what I was thinking.

So the question- how was the driving experience? Was it raw enough to be appealing?

You dropped 300-500 lb (depending on what you read as the starting point), which I'm sure would drive very different.

With all of the recent focus on raw driving, it would be interesting to see what one could do with a bodied Miata that is (barely) street legal. Even to the point of keeping the narrow tires- like the lower end 7's from Caterham.

BTW, I'm not talking about a rat Miata- as it would still have to look really good- for instance, I like how this turned out-

but even a really basic carpet would work-

And I would want to simplify the door cards to expose painted metal around it- so if I started with an NB, it would look very, very different. Anyway- something like this

With recent LED head lights, I would very much consider an NA and part with the pop-up headlights- as that give some appearance options vs. the NB light design. (maybe)

Not sure why this popped into my head. But it's similar to the project Keith posted a few years ago about the retro Miata they did- which looked really sharp.

calteg
calteg Dork
5/25/16 11:39 a.m.
alfadriver wrote:

I like that quite a bit. As others have said, street legality will vary state-to-state. In Texas you have to have wipers, but not a windshield. Yay, bureaucrats!

codrus
codrus Dork
5/25/16 11:53 a.m.
KyAllroad wrote: DP Miata I heard are close to 1,700 but they don't have windshields.

DP minimum weight is with a 1.8 is 1924. I know someone who built a 1.8 car comfortably below that, and then ballasted it up with a 75-pound rear subframe brace. Minimum with a 1.6 is around 1700, but I don't think people actually manage to get them that low.

The DP car was a blast to drive.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
5/25/16 12:43 p.m.

The Mumpkin weighs 1750 lbs without the top, 1820 with the fastback top in place (with about a half tank of gas, and no driver in the seat). (I think that was with the other nose- no splitter):

Mumpkin thread

Yes, I've had it on race scales. It is still tagged and insured (this is GA- farm tractors are road legal too). Most states would at least want to add back the exhaust- I figure a snail is sufficient for exhaust.

It's pretty bare bones. It's a raw, noisy ride, but I like it that way. The extra stiff suspension adds to the noise level.

May consider selling it soon...

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
5/25/16 12:57 p.m.

If you want to go minimum weight, you want to start with an NA. And you want the 1.6 dash, there's a surprising difference. You'll also want the 1.6 rear, I think there's 15 lbs right there.

The lightweights do drive well, you can feel the difference. They're just sharper overall. When my street car was at 2150 (wet, with very few compromises - early Canadian cars are lighter) you could feel the difference between it and the "lightweight" 2003 Club Sport. You'll really want to judge how much you want to sacrifice liveability to get there - Miatas are built pretty light to start with, and doing things like pulling carpet don't drop mass as fast as you might think. Coming up with a clever fixed headlight that doesn't look awful would be a good way to lose weight, I can see the Mumpkin didn't bother with lights

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
5/25/16 1:01 p.m.

In reply to SVreX:

I think it's this thread that would be more useful- https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/re-introducing-the-2014-emgrm-familyem-car/92053/page1/ as it has how you got that way.

But that is more of what I'm looking for- still a car with a body, lots of extreme lightening, etc. But still street legal. And going N/A, it would be slightly lighter (or equal with a full body exhaust).

Oddly enough, instead of extreme performance, I would kind of lean toward stock (lowered) suspension- as losing that much weight would still let it ride really well.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
5/25/16 1:03 p.m.
Keith Tanner wrote: If you want to go minimum weight, you want to start with an NA. And you want the 1.6 dash, there's a surprising difference. You'll also want the 1.6 rear, I think there's 15 lbs right there. The lightweights do drive well, you can feel the difference. They're just sharper overall. When my street car was at 2150 (wet, with very few compromises - early Canadian cars are lighter) you could feel the difference between it and the "lightweight" 2003 Club Sport. You'll really want to judge how much you want to sacrifice liveability to get there - Miatas are built pretty light to start with, and doing things like pulling carpet don't drop mass as fast as you might think. Coming up with a clever fixed headlight that doesn't look awful would be a good way to lose weight, I can see the Mumpkin didn't bother with lights

The stripping of the interior would not do much, except illustrate a theme of what the car is. Which is even more retro than that really nice dark blue-gray car you guys made at Flyin. I'd even consider retro guage backgrounds.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
5/25/16 1:04 p.m.

Yeah, the build threads for that car span 6 years and 4 owners. I only shaved the final 200 lbs or so.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
5/25/16 1:06 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner:

The Mumpkin turn signal lights have been re-wired as "headlights".

They are really dim, but the same thing could be done with brighter LEDs

sesto elemento
sesto elemento SuperDork
5/25/16 1:38 p.m.

Weight reduction was the best mod I did to the mr2. (Well the thrbo helped too but gutting it was Free).

It's as gutted as anything and totally livable as a daily.

java230
java230 Dork
5/25/16 1:51 p.m.

In reply to sesto elemento:

Im really trying not to guy mine.... Thats not helping. And I need turbo....

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
5/25/16 1:54 p.m.
SVreX wrote: In reply to Keith Tanner: The Mumpkin turn signal lights have been re-wired as "headlights". They are really dim, but the same thing could be done with brighter LEDs

You'll find the beam pattern in the turn indicator lenses is all wrong as well as they're designed to scatter light instead of direct it - I put high wattage lights in there years ago as an experiment. But a couple of well-chosen LED pods would help a lot. I just figured that functional headlights were outside the design intent of that car.

This would be the car Alfadriver has mentioned a couple of times: Project 707

A stripped out interior certainly does make a statement of intent. It comes with the price of noise and heat, and given the weight of the Miata carpet that has to be a deliberate decision.

RossD
RossD UltimaDork
5/25/16 2:22 p.m.

I like the idea of a proper roadster with no top or side glass.

Converting a Miata to a bolt on windscreen like an older car and continuing the body panels' sheet metal over the top of the doors and dash would give it a lot of that old school vibe.

NickD
NickD Dork
5/25/16 2:45 p.m.
calteg wrote:
alfadriver wrote:

I like that quite a bit. As others have said, street legality will vary state-to-state. In Texas you have to have wipers, but not a windshield. Yay, bureaucrats!

Damn, now I really want to do that with my interior too.

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