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Login to post Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Welded Dif on Road Trip?

Dec. 7, 2011 11:40 a.m. JohnyHachi6 Reader

I've been meaning to post this up here for a while now. So, I'm going to be driving up to NY (upstate) this Christmas with my girlfriend (driving from Atlanta). We'll be taking my '85 Celica GT unless something terrible happens to it in the next 2 weeks.

While we're up in NY we're planning to drive up to the Adirondack park for a few days to enjoy the winter scenery at my uncle's cabin. In all likelihood there's going to be lots of snow and I probably won't have great tires. I love love love driving in the snow and I'm not really worried about this, but it may be helpful to have some more traction (the car is RWD with an open dif, solid axle setup right now). So, I was thinking about picking up a spare axle assembly at the local Pull-A-Part ($80) and welding up the dif. I'm pretty confident in my welding skills, and have access to some beefcake welders so that's not a problem, but I'm not sure how the car will like extensive driving with a welded unit. I can't see it being a big problem on the highway since it's all pretty straight, but it's a lot of miles.

I'll probably swap back to the open unit once I get back to Atlanta, since my commute is all city driving and parking garages.

Anyone have some input on a this?
Dec. 7, 2011 12:03 p.m. DrBoost SuperDork

Don't do it. I've driven a few lincoln-locked vehicles. They are fine in a straight line, but not safe otherwise. Get the snow tires and have fun.
Dec. 7, 2011 12:03 p.m. emodspitfire Reader

My thots: DO NOT DO THIS......

Fellow posters will provide multiple reasons. (Grin)

Rog
Dec. 7, 2011 12:09 p.m. stuart in mn SuperDork

While it will provide traction to both rear wheels, it will also push you straight off a snow covered road at the first corner.
Dec. 7, 2011 12:11 p.m. ditchdigger Dork

It seems to me that a locked diff would be more of a hinderance in snow than a help. The welded up RWD cars I have piloted (E30 and E21) were understeering pains in the ass in the dry and absolutely crazy in the rain.

Pulling into a parking lot in the dry the tires fought each other making lots of noise. In the wet the rear just stepped out without warning.
Dec. 7, 2011 12:13 p.m. DeadSkunk Dork

Buy snow tires,4 of them and go have fun. The welded dif will be really, really, really tail happy if you encounter curves on snow covered roads. Don't go there,,just get the tires.
Dec. 7, 2011 12:24 p.m. Powar Dork

DeadSkunk wrote:

Buy snow tires,4 of them and go have fun. The welded dif will be really, really, really tail happy if you encounter curves on snow covered roads. Don't go there,,just get the tires.
Dec. 7, 2011 12:27 p.m. JohnyHachi6 Reader

Well, I'm glad I asked. While I grew up driving in loads of snow and ice, I've never driven something with a welded dif in low traction situations. Sounds like it's not so great.

Thanks for the advice!
Dec. 7, 2011 12:29 p.m. bludroptop SuperDork

Yeah, what they said...

I did multiple New England winters in an open-diff E21 with snow tires on the back and a couple of patio blocks in the trunk. It was as capable in the snow as any 2wd vehicle I've driven and more than most, regardless of fwd vs rwd.

Besides, your window of opportunity to drive in snow will be limited - the plow trucks work fast.
Dec. 7, 2011 12:34 p.m. MG_Bryan Reader

If you're worried about traction in the snow and aren't going to run snow tires, just get a couple of sandbags and put them in the back. It should cost you right about nothing and it's always done the job for me. Drive accordingly and be safe.
Dec. 7, 2011 12:39 p.m. JohnyHachi6 Reader

Yeah, I always load up the hatch with heavy stuff. I drove the same car up to NY through that blizzard that hit the south in 2009, right before Christmas. Had an antique cast iron sewing machine and table (for my Mom) in the back, which weighted about 200 lbs. Worked great, haha.
Dec. 7, 2011 12:42 p.m. NOHOME HalfDork

Please do this. Then make sure to take lots of dash-video of the ensuing hilarity.

(Yes I am kidding.)
Dec. 7, 2011 12:52 p.m. ArthurDent Reader

Surely a set of used snows tires is the same price as an extra diff. I'd take the tires any day. Tires help accelerating AND braking.
Dec. 7, 2011 12:54 p.m. JohnyHachi6 Reader

In reply to ArthurDent:

Ture. But they're hard to find down here in the south, and picking up a used set in NY and having them mounted on short notice is a little tricky. Plus, I wouldn't mind having a welded dif kicking around for other hooning adventures.
Dec. 7, 2011 12:57 p.m. JohnyHachi6 Reader

On a related note, do OE clutch or viscous limited slip units cause the same tail-happiness as a welded dif (in the snow)? Maybe only when you get on the gas?

I've driven a few cars with lsds in the snow, but don't remember this being an issue. Though, by far most of my snow driving was in cars with open difs.
Dec. 7, 2011 4:02 p.m. fasted58 SuperDork

NO !!!
Dec. 7, 2011 4:14 p.m. stuart in mn SuperDork

JohnyHachi6 wrote:

On a related note, do OE clutch or viscous limited slip units cause the same tail-happiness as a welded dif (in the snow)? Maybe only when you get on the gas?

They can, depending on the conditions. For instance, if the road is icy and you get both rear wheels spinning, the rear of the car can slide off to the side of the road.
Dec. 7, 2011 4:18 p.m. rotard Reader

I've always wondered how many people have to say that something is a stupid idea before the person asking the question will accept it.

You're already taking a 26 year old Celica on a very long trip with your g/f. Why are you trying to make this worse for yourself? Are you trying to make her dump you when you get back to Atlanta?
Dec. 7, 2011 4:21 p.m. SupraWes Dork

stuart in mn wrote:

While it will provide traction to both rear wheels, it will also push you straight off a snow covered road at the first corner.

This!
Dec. 7, 2011 7:11 p.m. kevlarcorolla Reader

Having ice raced an AE86 with an open,lsd and welded diff I can tell you that without a doubt the hands down best set-up was the open diff.In the slippery stuff it'll just spin both rear(if you moving) nearly everytime with the open but will still allow you to steer the thing when you want to. A tight lsd will act exactly like a welded as there's not enough grip across the axles to allow one to spin anytime its slick.
Dec. 8, 2011 5:03 a.m. mguar New Reader

In reply to JohnyHachi6:

Oh the rear end will hold up just fine if welded properly.. The question is do you have the driving skill? My race car is welded but I approach corners like A drifter and know that you steer with the throttle not the steering wheel.. You can't always do that on the road.. As to the idea of adding weight, that's almost as bad.. Yes added weight will help you push down through snow and maybe you'll get traction but it will also make things worse on ice or limited traction where the weight will hurt you.. You cannot beat physics. It takes more traction to get added weight up a slope than less weight.. Your best way to handle snow is skinny tires with deep tread.. wide tires put too big a footprint and tend to ride on top of snow.. Narrow Tread with a lot of sips (those narrow little grooves/ cuts) in the tread work best. Surprise! cheap tires tend to have that. Plus they wear out quickly which is a good thing regarding traction.. One unexpected place to look for tires cheap is a junkyard.. You'd be surprised at the number of junk cars with new or near new tires on them but something else seriously wrong.. (Blown engine, ruined transmission etc)..
Dec. 8, 2011 8:32 a.m. Jay_W Dork

Yeah, that. in stage rally the guys with welded diffs have to approach the corner sideways. Since this is the fast line, no problem, but driving like that on open roads, eh, maybe not so much...
Dec. 8, 2011 10:26 a.m. twolittlebroncos Reader

I'll add my witness to what the other 30 people said. Don't do it.

I had a Jeep Wagoneer with "lincoln lockers". Fun in the snow, but hardly safe for street driving with passengers and traffic. Two tires spinning at the exact same rate despite traveling different paths will constantly be breaking traction. Hence the tire chirping when a locked vehicle turns sharply.
Dec. 8, 2011 6:05 p.m. iceracer SuperDork

JohnyHachi6 wrote:

On a related note, do OE clutch or viscous limited slip units cause the same tail-happiness as a welded dif (in the snow)? Maybe only when you get on the gas?

I've driven a few cars with lsds in the snow, but don't remember this being an issue. Though, by far most of my snow driving was in cars with open difs.

My KJ with the factory Trac-Lok could be a real pain at times. Especialy on ice or real slippery snow. This was in 2wd. Got used to it and a quick shift into 4wd fixed things.
Dec. 9, 2011 9:18 a.m. wheels777 Dork

Almost all my cars have spools. NO issues in dry. Hold on when wet or slick. I looped my Pro-Street 56 Chev on the rain and almost hit a building.

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