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Nashco
Nashco SuperDork
10/7/08 1:06 p.m.
David_Chong wrote: </cite. Okay, you heard it here first. If you guys are willing to put some money where your keyboards are, we are willing to run a $2009 special event subcategory. In the middle of our season, we would shedule one of our drag races and autocross races back to back on the same weekend, Saturday and Sunday. We would host a special $2009 concourse the same weekend, and offer a little social on Saturday night for poking fun, and getting your competitors liquored up so that they miss the race the next morning. We do this because we love it, but we won't be back if we can't pay the bills. It's too late for us to attract marketing partners to support a seperate class and a special event weekend. So in order to not lose a ton of money, we'd need an adequate level of paid preregistrations. It certainly would not be a Full Show like you get in Gainesville, but you would have all of the elements and your own $2009 class to run in, on even ground. If you want it, vote with your checkbooks and it will happen.

Keep talking David...I'm listening! Your $2009 would be the exact same rules as the Gainesville challenge? Any chance there are 1/4 mile tracks around? What kind of regi$tration money are you talking? How many participants needed to seal the deal? What time of the year are you talking? It looks like your middle of the season would be July...is there a reason that works better than your August part of the season? I only mention that because getting time off to travel in July is usually tougher than August (because of 4th of July plans people usually have).

Bryce

aircooled
aircooled Dork
10/7/08 1:17 p.m.
David S. Wallens wrote: We'd lose the momentum we have here in Florida if we went to an alternating schedule. This weekend's event was awesome--awesome cars, awesome people.

Another thing to consider: Although it is certainly true that you will loose some momentum by moving the challenge you also must realize the challenge is very much a "lots of work / money with little return" (as with most motorsports, but probably a lot more than most low cost types) as well as one that relies on a good amount of creativity and new ideas (at least if you want it to be interesting).

Because of this you also run the risk of "burning out" the event by running at the same spot. That is a reduction of interest do to the same thing over and over again (especially with the effort involved for some). Moving the event allows for a great potential for "new blood" and new ideas.

Just a potential business justification for different locations.

P.S. could someone post a link to info on this Grand Challenge? I may not have been paying attention, but this is the first I have heard of it.

Tim Baxter
Tim Baxter Online Editor
10/7/08 1:30 p.m.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/grand-challenge/

poopshovel
poopshovel Dork
10/7/08 1:47 p.m.

Man, I wanted to post a "constructive" response here. Then I threw up in my mouth and whacked myself in the forehead with a claw-hammer. Here's the best I can come up with:

  1. GRM, like any other business, is in the business of making money. They don't 'owe' anyone squat, aside from sending magazines to folks with subscriptions.

  2. Out of the dozens of HARDCORE "east coast" Challengers (keeping in mind that some folks come from as far as Canada and Colorado,) I never heard ONE say anything negative when it was SUGGESTED that the $2009 Challenge MIGHT be "Out west."

  3. Our tenative plan, assuming there was going to be a "west-coast" challenge, was to find cheap tix to "west," pick up a $200 running somethinguruther, bring a couple of ford van springs, pick up 3 quarts of rustoleum, have our wheels and tires sent via Greyhound, and build a sub-$500 car in the hotel parking lot. If you'd (whoever made the original post) like to do this next year in G-ville, I'm sure you'll find 20 or 30 drunken monkeys with tools at the hotel that will be more than happy to help (myself included.)

Per Schroeder
Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director
10/7/08 1:53 p.m.

I heart poopy.

SVreX
SVreX SuperDork
10/7/08 2:13 p.m.
Nashco wrote: You planned on bringing a car out west just like you planned on bringing a car to the $2008, right? You said buying a $2009 car before the $2009 event was announced was foolish, I've got my reasons for doing so just like you've got your reasons for not bringing a car even though you have a number that you could have brought along for the ride.

The foolishness I was referring to was that IF the 1000 mile trek or so from north to south is unacceptable, then it was probably foolish to start building before the rules and venue were determined.

Nashco wrote: I don't have a family to make a priority,

Apparantly you missed the part about me working on other people's cars. I'd have gone with or without a family, with or without a car, regardless of which coast. But I did take my tools. A truck full. The Challengers are family to me. Doesn't look like you are taking the same attitude.

Nashco wrote: Foolish? Perhaps to you, but do I go around saying people that make babies and stop racing are foolish? Hardly.

Actually, you didn't use the word foolish, but you offered your clear criticism:

Nashco wrote: Some of us already spent money on a $2009 car because we actually planned on bringing a car to the event rather than giving in and coming carless because we ran out of time.

I've logged over 20,000 miles towing around other people's potential Challengers FOR FREE. I've allowed 2 100%ers to room with me so they could participate, allowed 2 people to enter and drive my cars, and built 2 cars with high school student builders.

Regardless of whether I ever win anything, I'm a Challenger. I'm really not sure what you are. But your complaining is not earning you any points.

SVreX
SVreX SuperDork
10/7/08 2:13 p.m.

I heart poopy 2

John Brown
John Brown SuperDork
10/7/08 2:20 p.m.

I am with the fecal freaks except that I do that with my daily drivers.

jwdmotorsports
jwdmotorsports Reader
10/7/08 2:43 p.m.
poopshovel wrote: Our tenative plan, assuming there was going to be a "west-coast" challenge, was to find cheap tix to "west," pick up a $200 running somethinguruther, bring a couple of ford van springs, pick up 3 quarts of rustoleum, have our wheels and tires sent via Greyhound, and build a sub-$500 car in the hotel parking lot. If you'd (whoever made the original post) like to do this next year in G-ville, I'm sure you'll find 20 or 30 drunken monkeys with tools at the hotel that will be more than happy to help (myself included.)

That's an awesome idea. I think I may have to do that one year even though I'm only 7 hours away.

poopshovel
poopshovel Dork
10/7/08 2:48 p.m.
jwdmotorsports wrote:
poopshovel wrote: 3. Our tenative plan, assuming there was going to be a "west-coast" challenge, was to find cheap tix to "west," pick up a $200 running somethinguruther, bring a couple of ford van springs, pick up 3 quarts of rustoleum, have our wheels and tires sent via Greyhound, and build a sub-$500 car in the hotel parking lot. If you'd (whoever made the original post) like to do this next year in G-ville, I'm sure you'll find 20 or 30 drunken monkeys with tools at the hotel that will be more than happy to help (myself included.)

That's an awesome idea. I think I may have to do that one year even though I'm only 7 hours away.

I left out the part where we cut up the car afterward, then throw it in someone's pickup and sell it for scrap to zero out the budget, but you get the idea.

jwdmotorsports
jwdmotorsports Reader
10/7/08 2:50 p.m.
poopshovel wrote:
jwdmotorsports wrote:
poopshovel wrote: 3. Our tenative plan, assuming there was going to be a "west-coast" challenge, was to find cheap tix to "west," pick up a $200 running somethinguruther, bring a couple of ford van springs, pick up 3 quarts of rustoleum, have our wheels and tires sent via Greyhound, and build a sub-$500 car in the hotel parking lot. If you'd (whoever made the original post) like to do this next year in G-ville, I'm sure you'll find 20 or 30 drunken monkeys with tools at the hotel that will be more than happy to help (myself included.)

That's an awesome idea. I think I may have to do that one year even though I'm only 7 hours away.

I left out the part where we cut up the car afterward, then throw it in someone's pickup and sell it for scrap to zero out the budget, but you get the idea.

Even better!

bluej
bluej HalfDork
10/7/08 3:17 p.m.
poopshovel wrote: 3. Our tenative plan, assuming there was going to be a "west-coast" challenge, was to find cheap tix to "west," pick up a $200 running somethinguruther, bring a couple of ford van springs, pick up 3 quarts of rustoleum, have our wheels and tires sent via Greyhound, and build a sub-$500 car in the hotel parking lot. If you'd (whoever made the original post) like to do this next year in G-ville, I'm sure you'll find 20 or 30 drunken monkeys with tools at the hotel that will be more than happy to help (myself included.)

this will work, trust me.

MitchellC
MitchellC Reader
10/7/08 3:35 p.m.

West coasters: You could even fly in on Wednesday, have one of us Gainesville guys pick you up from the Jacksonville airport, stay on one of our couches or at the hotel, and join our team(s) for the Challenge. I can guarantee you that there will still be plenty of wrenching going on, hah. Even better, since you won't have a car, you will always have a designated driver. I think with a plan like this you'll still be well under the $2009 mark, and you'll still experience everything that's great about the event.

Osterkraut
Osterkraut Reader
10/7/08 4:00 p.m.
MitchellC wrote: West coasters: You could even fly in on Wednesday, have one of us Gainesville guys pick you up from the Jacksonville airport, stay on one of our couches or at the hotel, and join our team(s) for the Challenge. I can guarantee you that there will still be plenty of wrenching going on, hah. Even better, since you won't have a car, you will always have a designated driver. I think with a plan like this you'll still be well under the $2009 mark, and you'll still experience everything that's great about the event.

The only thing we'll be doing the night before the Challenge is congradulating ourselves on a car well built!

They can help wash and wax it, though!

bullE36 M3

MitchellC
MitchellC Reader
10/7/08 4:12 p.m.

Car well built? I just imagine my field of vision panning from the left to right:

Left: car Right: its engine, interior, and pile of rusty fasteners.
Mire right: Empty beer bottles (or, the source of reasoning that made this sound like a good idea a few months back)

P71
P71 Reader
10/7/08 4:13 p.m.
David_Chong wrote: Okay, you heard it here first. If you guys are willing to put some money where your keyboards are, we are willing to run a $2009 special event subcategory. In the middle of our season, we would schedule one of our drag races and autocross races back to back on the same weekend, Saturday and Sunday. We would host a special $2009 concourse the same weekend, and offer a little social on Saturday night for poking fun, and getting your competitors liquored up so that they miss the race the next morning. We do this because we love it, but we won't be back if we can't pay the bills. It's too late for us to attract marketing partners to support a seperate class and a special event weekend. So in order to not lose a ton of money, we'd need an adequate level of paid preregistrations. It certainly would not be a Full Show like you get in Gainesville, but you would have all of the elements and your own $2009 class to run in, on even ground. If you want it, vote with your checkbooks and it will happen.

You do this and I will put my money where my mouth is and show up with a car.

fastclown
fastclown New Reader
10/7/08 5:24 p.m.

"I will put my money where my mouth is" I doubt David will want to go down there and get it.

fiat22turbo
fiat22turbo SuperDork
10/8/08 3:12 p.m.

David, I'm down.

You may want to make a separate posting about it, now that this thread is all but ruined (damned clowns, you too Guido!)

Dan G
Dan G Dork
10/8/08 4:17 p.m.

LeMons buddies are interested, but I'd like to propose a few things...

  1. Make the $2009 class ONLY include results from the super weekend with all three events. This way non-locals aren't disadvantaged for competition in just that one weekend.

  2. Line up the price/safety rules of the $2009 class with the Gainesville challenge. Not critical as we'll build to suit the rules, but it would be cool for a car to meet both sets of rules without a lot of hassel.

  3. Love to see the 1/8 mile stretched to a full 1/4 mile for comparison to the Gainesville challenge. 1/8 mile drags are for wimps anyway.

  4. Edit your site's META tags or whatever is causing SDRev.com and the SGC stuff from hitting my work's webfilter as "gambling".

Yes, these are all selfish requests, but I'd still consider them semi-constructive criticism. Looking forward to seeing this west coast $2009 mini-challenge develop!

David_Chong
David_Chong New Reader
10/8/08 9:13 p.m.

You're right on target. #1 and #2 are the only way we would do it.

.#3 is a total non-issue in SoCal so it's not worth asking about. There is no 1/4 mile track that we can use. None of you are interested in paying $1000+ each to enter, so it isn't going to happen in LA, either.

.#4 I will take care of ASAP. We have a "for fun" casino using points gained from forum participation as play money. It's probably triggering filters.

SVreX
SVreX SuperDork
10/8/08 9:37 p.m.

I heart David Chong.

Wish I was in southern CAL

MrJoshua
MrJoshua SuperDork
10/9/08 6:07 a.m.
SVreX wrote: I heart David Chong. Wish I was in southern CAL

Im guessing this willingness to work with us is a big part of the reason GRM is teaming up with his events. Im pretty impressed as well.

GUNDY
GUNDY Reader
10/9/08 7:13 a.m.

I can understand the disappointment from the west coast group, but understand that the Challenge had it’s share of teething problems when it first started.

The first one was a $1500 challenge and took place in two different cities on the same weekend.

The next two, $2001 & $2002 still took place in two different cities.

The next two, $2003 & $2004 took place at Gainesville but used the road course as the auto-x set up more like a solo 1 which favored high horsepower cars. The rest have been at Gainesville but use the large parking lot for a true solo 2 layout.

As you can see the Challenge as we all know and love it did not start out that way. Give the west coast event a chance to walk before you expect it to run.

Support the west coast event but express your wishes to the promoters, with GRM’s guidance as to what works best you may just get the event you want in a few years.

Some expressed interest in volunteering, that is a great idea, do it now, change come more easily from within.

John Brown
John Brown SuperDork
10/9/08 8:31 a.m.

This question is for The Powers.

If someone were to hold a regional event with similar rules as the Challenge and give you the publishing rights as well as the photos would it be acceptable?

I would be more concerned with poking the bear and pissing off Tim and Margie.

I have posted my idea for a regional "challenge type event" that I want to get rolling locally. My goal is to get sponsorship deals for the spring of 2010.

Good luck to you guys Dave, if you were in Michigan I would be there.

David_Chong
David_Chong New Reader
10/9/08 10:27 a.m.
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