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Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
1/16/18 5:48 p.m.

Yes, that's a turbocharger force feeding a supercharger. The packaging simply demanded it.

NickD
NickD UltraDork
1/16/18 5:53 p.m.

Funny thing was, during a thread a few months back, I got thinking about what it'd be like to feed a turbo into a positive-displacement blower on the BP-4W I was building for my Miata. And now this...

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
1/16/18 6:00 p.m.

That's unexpectedly attractive packaging. 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
1/16/18 6:03 p.m.
mazdeuce - Seth said:

That's unexpectedly attractive packaging. 

It's just so obvious. It's the boys and girls hugging opposite walls of the gym at a middle school dance, there's no mixing from one side to the other. We had to do a little tweaking to the heat exchangers in the nose, but we used brackets that were already developed for our oil cooler kit.

Feedyurhed
Feedyurhed SuperDork
1/16/18 6:08 p.m.

Nice job.  What are the stats on that Keith?

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
1/16/18 6:08 p.m.

It is not at the stage where it has stats. It is at the stage where it exists.

icaneat50eggs
icaneat50eggs Dork
1/16/18 6:12 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:

It is not at the stage where it has stats. It is at the stage where it exists.

It's double blown and has All the PSIs

 

what other stats do you need?

Toyman01
Toyman01 MegaDork
1/16/18 6:20 p.m.

Very Cool!

How much boost can a Miata engine take before it spits the crank out the bottom of the block?

I get the feeling you might be fixing to test the limits. 

I'd be interested in knowing what the limits are. 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
1/16/18 6:28 p.m.

Another angle.

If we simply wanted to spit rods out the sides of the block, that turbo can move enough air on its own. This is mostly a "we could, so we should" setup.

Recon1342
Recon1342 Reader
1/16/18 6:30 p.m.

We had a 7-meter RHIB in the boat locker that was powered by a Volvo Penta I6 diesel...

It, too, had two-stage boost, with a supercharger feeding a turbo. 

45mph on a 28’ boat in open ocean is an experience you’ll never forget.

Toyman01
Toyman01 MegaDork
1/16/18 6:32 p.m.

Could you stage them so the supercharger took care of the boost until the turbo took over? Zero lag at a reasonable and survivable amount of boost. 

Kramer
Kramer Dork
1/16/18 6:32 p.m.

Like a Detroit Diesel, but not. 

Hiroshima Hemi.

Flyin' Four

Roots Redone

Super Skyactive

 

 

There's gotta be some catchy, alliterative name you can put on that.  

 

Hey, they can't all be winners.  But this car is. 

Fitzauto
Fitzauto Dork
1/16/18 6:41 p.m.

I like this very much. Looks so factory and probably makes all the right noises.

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
1/16/18 6:47 p.m.

I am reminded of the very rare HKS "Twincharger" that was offered for the Gen1 MR2 SC.  

Looks great.  Makes me all tingly!  

KyAllroad (Jeremy)
KyAllroad (Jeremy) PowerDork
1/16/18 6:48 p.m.

As the voice of dissent and obligatory devils advocate.  But why?  If as you say the turbo alone can move enough air to blow the delicate mazda internals into confetti.  This just seems like an expensive effort that will result in loads of underhood heat for no real benefit.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
1/16/18 6:51 p.m.

Expensive for you, maybe. But we did literally have the parts lying around. This car was already turbocharged and was scheduled to be converted to a supercharger. So why not give it a try?

vwcorvette
vwcorvette SuperDork
1/16/18 7:11 p.m.
KyAllroad (Jeremy) said:

As the voice of dissent and obligatory devils advocate.  But why?  If as you say the turbo alone can move enough air to blow the delicate mazda internals into confetti.  This just seems like an expensive effort that will result in loads of underhood heat for no real benefit.

Considering the enablers on this board are you sure you belong here?  Just kidding. 

Seriously  though,  if Keith had posted asking if it should be done the overwhelming consensus would have been,  "get the popcorn," or "where's the build thread?"

bluej
bluej UltraDork
1/16/18 7:18 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:

It is not at the stage where it has stats. It is at the stage where it exists.

He's lying. I hacked the FM server and found this top secret dyno plot:

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
1/16/18 7:24 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:

Yes, that's a turbocharger force feeding a supercharger. The packaging simply demanded it.

Twincharging is something I have been deeply fascinated by ever since reading a few threads about it over on eng-tips.

 

Apparently it makes detonation almost impossible because you can have just enough exhaust backpressure to make 15psi boost (turbo) while actually feeding the combustion chamber 30psi (2:1 ratio turbo, 1.5:1 supercharger).  The pressure differential across the intake to exhaust just scrubs the cylinder clean of hot residuals.  And boost lag becomes nonexistent.

 

The main downside of twincharging is plumbing it all.  And intercooling gets to be a challenge, and to do the engine management Right you really need a MAF system that does engine control by grams per cylinder cycle, or a 3D map that takes exhaust manifold pressure into account, since intake manifold pressure is no longer a very good way to determine fuel requirements.

 

I really, REALLY wanted to twincharge my Golf.  I bought an M62, I bought a Corrado G60 engine, I rebuilt the G60 engine, I bought a turbo manifold and a huge turbo...  I lost interest and sold off the parts except for the M62.

 

I probably *could* twincharge the Quantum if not for the fact that the radiator is in the way.  I have a M90 ready to go and I also have a line on a sufficiently large Precision turbo to feed an M90 that is feeding a 2.3l engine.

Pete Gossett
Pete Gossett MegaDork
1/16/18 7:31 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Do you expect the dyno graph to look like a slightly rounded square wave?

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
1/16/18 8:18 p.m.

Rick Dobbertin says, "Needs moar staged nitrous.

 

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
1/16/18 8:58 p.m.

Keith

This is nothing we all need but it is exactly what we all want. 

freetors
freetors New Reader
1/16/18 9:03 p.m.

This I like! I've been interested in twin charging for a very long time but the cost and complexity of plumbing and tuning make it a non starter for most that consider it. Even with all of its advantages. But when it fits so well like in the op then why not?!

conesare2seconds
conesare2seconds Dork
1/16/18 9:33 p.m.

Do like. 

clutchsmoke
clutchsmoke SuperDork
1/16/18 10:27 p.m.

I approve of this endeavor and am curious to see results. 

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