Jerry Dork
Sept. 26, 2013 11:06 a.m.

Our last autocross is this Sunday, and I'm torn between a big car show and this. Kind of depends on my friends and if they all bail on going to the show, I'll take the MR2 to the autocross for the hell of it.

Looking at the 350+ page PDF (seriously?) I'm looking at 5 different classes depending on mods it seems. I'm thinking STS is the most appropriate but not sure...

1) E Stock 2) Street Touring Sport 3) C Street Prepared 4) Super Street Modified (2 seater) 5) D Prepared

I think the only thing keeping me out of ES is the lack of cat (new header and small muffler, no cat converter)? Really the only mods I have so far (while reading the classes): steering wheel, shifter, removed part of interior (but not dash), racing seat and 5pt harness, header and muffler, mechanical fuel pressure regulator, and whatever tires I decide to throw on.

I could use the generic low profiles it had when I bought it, I could put the xB's Yokohama S-Drives on, or those racing tires/slicks I bought a few weeks ago for the hell of it.

Not 100% going anyway, but I'll register tonight just in case. What do you think? STS? ....(87 MR2 non-Supercharged)

(And if they removed the ads from the PDF maybe it would be 250 pages?)

Javelin MegaDork
Sept. 26, 2013 11:33 a.m.

Interior stripping at all? Move straight to Prepared, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

Header automatically kicks you out of Stock, and no cat automatically kicks you out of Street Touring.

Swank Force One MegaDork
Sept. 26, 2013 11:36 a.m.
Javelin wrote: Interior stripping at all? Move straight to Prepared, do not pass go, do not collect $200. Header automatically kicks you out of Stock, and no cat automatically kicks you out of Street Touring.

Depending on what exactly was stripped and why, could still be SP or SM legal.

But... unless it was stripped after reading rules (so probably not in this case), not likely.

The most likely answer is ST class of some sort, since i'm assuming this is a local event. Nobody will care. Or there might be an "SMS" class like we run locally. Street Mod, Street Tire. (Also known as the "rice class.")

If someone forces you to run your woefully underprepped car in Prepared class at the last event of the season at a local event, then i'd be re-thinking wanting to do any sort of activities with that region.

Sept. 26, 2013 11:39 a.m.

I run f-prepared, no cats, header, funcional body work, injection change, drivetrain swap. you name it!

In Detroit region we are one of the largest 5 in the country and last season 3 or 4 total people ran f-prepared out of all competitors. (including me)

Is my car under-prepared for that class? yes! Did I have any competitors? no.

chrispy New Reader
Sept. 26, 2013 11:43 a.m.

ES is out, too many mods. I'm pretty sure the interior has to be intact for STS (seat can be changed in STS and more "prepared" classes and a harness is allowed in all classes). STS also requires "street tires" - no slicks. I think a 140 or 180 treadwear rating. My Solo-Fu is weak but I'm also fairly certain that you have to have a "complete" interior for CSP. "Complete" being somewhat objective but basically no exposed metal in the interior unless it came that way from the factory. Door panels have to look like panels, carpet, etc. SSM needs a partial interior (SM cars can remove rear seat and gut the trunk) but not sure how much can be taken out for SSM. Its certainly legal for DP but depending on the crowd, may be uncompetitive or you may be on your own. I'd try to get by in CSP.

(I spent many hours classing my illegally prepped ITB car in Solo before giving up and running 2 seasons in E Mod and a season in G Prepared).

Swank Force One MegaDork
Sept. 26, 2013 11:44 a.m.

There's a provision for ITB cars to run SP classes with certain tires.

yamaha PowerDork
Sept. 26, 2013 11:45 a.m.

if you're just going once a year, sign up for stock class. Its when you're actually going most/every event that your competitors might care.

chrispy New Reader
Sept. 26, 2013 11:47 a.m.

An IT(x) car can run in its relative (x)SP class without modifications, assuming the IT(x) car is legal under IT(x) rules.

Swank Force One MegaDork
Sept. 26, 2013 11:48 a.m.
chrispy wrote: An IT(x) car can run in its relative (x)SP class without modifications, assuming the IT(x) car is legal under IT(x) rules.

Oh... i read that incorrectly... i read it as your IT car was illegal for any sort of decent class in Solo. My bad!

chrispy New Reader
Sept. 26, 2013 11:50 a.m.
yamaha wrote: if you're just going once a year, sign up for stock class. Its when you're actually going most/every event that your competitors might care.

Truth, unless you smoke the current points leader in that class. We have an "X" class which is "run-what-you-brung" as long as its on 140 or greater treadwear tires and passes tech, but we're not affiliated with SCCA, we just use their classing and safety guidelines.

Javelin MegaDork
Sept. 26, 2013 11:55 a.m.

I would highly recommend not signing up for Stock, those guys are little "weird" most places. I'd suggest emailing/calling the organizers and asking if they have a Novice class, or an "X" class, or if you can run in STS (closest to your level of prep/speed potential).

chrispy New Reader
Sept. 26, 2013 11:55 a.m.
Swank Force One wrote:
chrispy wrote: An IT(x) car can run in its relative (x)SP class without modifications, assuming the IT(x) car is legal under IT(x) rules.

Oh... i read that incorrectly... i read it as your IT car was illegal for any sort of decent class in Solo. My bad!

No problem. I ran 1 event in FSP before discovering my engine was not a factory available configuration for the year of my car. Wouldn't have paid attention but I was also trying to get a log book for time trials. Cheaper to reclass the car than swap the engine or chassis.

Ian F UltimaDork
Sept. 26, 2013 12:37 p.m.
chrispy wrote: An IT(x) car can run in its relative (x)SP class without modifications, assuming the IT(x) car is legal under IT(x) rules.

This. The car has to be prepped specifically for an Improved Touring class, not just, "well... it's kinda like an IT car..." The "spec" classes also fall under this rule: SpecE30/36 = DSP; SpecMiata = CSP. The spec tires are what usually kills the competitiveness in their respective SP class.

For the OP/s car: Prepared, based on what i've read. Depending on what's left of the interior and/or there's a cage or roll bar, it might be legal for SP. Might. The rules get vague when it comes to adding roll bars, cages and whatnot. Technically, you can run a cage and still be in Stock (although I've never seen it done).

yamaha PowerDork
Sept. 26, 2013 2:29 p.m.

In reply to chrispy:

It should be viewed as a challenge though.....the redline dropping from D-stock to G-stock was funny though, I had protests at the first 3 events I attended that year. If they had protested the golf tee removing torque management systems, they'd have had a case.

93EXCivic MegaDork
Sept. 26, 2013 2:44 p.m.

Depending on the level of interior stripping it could be SP or SM. To be honest we run our interiorless Scirricco in FSP but we are preparing to put it back to FSP legal.

Jerry Dork
Sept. 26, 2013 3:14 p.m.

The only interior stripped out is carpet & headliner, the doors/dash are fully intact. Really the only performance mod has been the exhaust, dyno tested to still be only 120hp (5-10 over stock). Besides tires.

Might just go STS and see what happens. Last event, I'm on the board with the SCCA chapter, I think it's going to be fairly low-key. (Hell they let me run my xB 3 years ago even though it's verbotten.)

aussiesmg MegaDork
Sept. 26, 2013 3:15 p.m.

Turn up, advise the staff registering the car of the mods, put numbers on the car that match what they stated.

/end thread

Ian F UltimaDork
Sept. 26, 2013 3:23 p.m.
aussiesmg wrote: Turn up, advise the staff registering the car of the mods, put numbers on the car that match what they stated. /end thread

Yes and no.

Show up early, go to the Novice table and ask for assistance and yes, this will work.

Show up late, stand in the registration line and then ask the guy running registration what class you're in and your answer may be less friendly and/or accurate. It is NOT the registration crew's job to know what class your car is in.

STS could work, depending on how competitive that class happens to be in your region. In mine, nobody runs in STS, so it's likely few would care. If somebody showed up with a questionable car in ES or STX, the chances of somebody saying something would be higher.

wbjones PowerDork
Sept. 26, 2013 3:52 p.m.
Swank Force One wrote:
Javelin wrote: Interior stripping at all? Move straight to Prepared, do not pass go, do not collect $200. Header automatically kicks you out of Stock, and no cat automatically kicks you out of Street Touring.

Depending on what exactly was stripped and why, could still be SP or SM legal.

But... unless it was stripped after reading rules (so probably not in this case), not likely.

The most likely answer is ST class of some sort, since i'm assuming this is a local event. Nobody will care. Or there might be an "SMS" class like we run locally. Street Mod, Street Tire. (Also known as the "rice class.")

If someone forces you to run your woefully underprepped car in Prepared class at the last event of the season at a local event, then i'd be re-thinking wanting to do any sort of activities with that region.

without the cat it's not ST legal ... like you said, since it's a local, maybe they won't care ... as for MAKING someone run in the class that the car falls in ... I really don't see the problem ... shoot he'll probably win the P class, since those are the least populated classes at most local events

wbjones PowerDork
Sept. 26, 2013 3:55 p.m.
chrispy wrote: ES is out, too many mods. I'm pretty sure the interior has to be intact for STS (seat can be changed in STS and more "prepared" classes and a harness is allowed in all classes). STS also requires "street tires" - no slicks. I think a 140 or 180 treadwear rating. My Solo-Fu is weak but I'm also fairly certain that you have to have a "complete" interior for CSP. "Complete" being somewhat objective but basically no exposed metal in the interior unless it came that way from the factory. Door panels have to look like panels, carpet, etc. SSM needs a partial interior (SM cars can remove rear seat and gut the trunk) but not sure how much can be taken out for SSM. Its certainly legal for DP but depending on the crowd, may be uncompetitive or you may be on your own. I'd try to get by in CSP. (I spent many hours classing my illegally prepped ITB car in Solo before giving up and running 2 seasons in E Mod and a season in G Prepared).

oops ... missed the " stripped out interior "

that's not legal in SP or SM much less ST

so yeah, Prepared it is .. which P class I don't know, I imagine that someone there will be able to make sense of the berkeleyed up SCCA rule book and help you find the right class

wbjones PowerDork
Sept. 26, 2013 4:02 p.m.
Ian F wrote:
aussiesmg wrote: Turn up, advise the staff registering the car of the mods, put numbers on the car that match what they stated. /end thread

Yes and no.

Show up early, go to the Novice table and ask for assistance and yes, this will work.

Show up late, stand in the registration line and then ask the guy running registration what class you're in and your answer may be less friendly and/or accurate. It is NOT the registration crew's job to know what class your car is in.

STS could work, depending on how competitive that class happens to be in your region. In mine, nobody runs in STS, so it's likely few would care. If somebody showed up with a questionable car in ES or STX, the chances of somebody saying something would be higher.

STS on slicks would be a no/go each region is, of course, different ... in ours, STS is very competitive, with usually 5 cars in open and 3 in Pro .. but we run a STM class that's pretty much run what you brung ...but it's got to be on 140 or above tires

Ian F UltimaDork
Sept. 26, 2013 6:08 p.m.

In reply to wbjones:

Ah... missed the part about him running r-comps. I was assuming ST tires.

As luck would have it, I have my rule book handy: A non-forced induction MR2 is in D-Prepared.

wbjones PowerDork
Sept. 26, 2013 7:24 p.m.

In reply to Ian F:

he did say he had other tires ... but if STS is any kind of competitive (and in many places it really is) they a overly prepped car probably won't be very welcome ...

IMHO ... (humble being the sarcastically operative word here ) since it's just one event, and you really don't care ... just out to have fun ... pick a class (DP) works (since that's where it would class) that doesn't affect anyones final shot at the season championship ... and have a ball

Jerry Dork
Sept. 26, 2013 8:25 p.m.
wbjones wrote: In reply to Ian F: IMHO ... (humble being the sarcastically operative word here ) since it's just one event, and you really don't care ... just out to have fun ... pick a class (DP) works (since that's where it would class) that doesn't affect anyones final shot at the season championship ... and have a ball

To be honest, it doesn't matter what class I end up in. It's one event, as a one-off lark, and my objective is to drive my sports car on a closed course, hang out with like-minded car guys and girls, and try not to get lost in the cones. We use a fairly small area (infield and partial oval of Kil-Kare in Xenia OH) so I've seen the courses and they loop around at least twice, maybe three times.

I'm going to find the least populated class I can fit into and try that one.

Ian F UltimaDork
Sept. 26, 2013 8:49 p.m.

In that case, just run DP and be done. Nobody will question it in the least. A couple of guys in my region will bring their Lemons cars for shake-down testing once in awhile. They'll usually run in Non-Comp or XP.

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