tuna55
tuna55 SuperDork
10/19/11 10:41 a.m.

I am looking for a couple of solenoids. They have to be strong, have a decent stroke, be consistent (to one another and to themselves) in terms of force and speed.

Yes, by the way, this is related to my "350 hp out of four cylinders on a challenge budget" thread, but I am not telling you how.

I can only think of starters.

For each part you think of, tell me a good source for a good strong unit (what car).

Thanks!

daytonaer
daytonaer Reader
10/19/11 10:53 a.m.

80's GM trunk release solenoids.

One wire, grounded chassy. Somewhat awkward bracing, but that leaves more options for mounting. You can drill the plunger to activate levers etc.

I had one from a caddy brougham that I used to activate a paintball gun.. Full auto with a relay and an 555 timer circuit.

RossD
RossD SuperDork
10/19/11 11:10 a.m.

Would a solenoid move the old style door lock 'pulls' up and down? That might be a source...

tuna55
tuna55 SuperDork
10/19/11 11:17 a.m.

Looking for something that can push with 75 lb or so.

daytonaer
daytonaer Reader
10/19/11 11:24 a.m.

Your post disappeared.

Pulling a number out of my tushy, the trunk solenoids can pull 10-15 or so lbs. They were pretty much the strongest solenoids out there for the money. Really only talking 1/4-1/2" or so effective pull however. The less pull you needed the stronger the pull.

I did a bit of research on that, as I was designing the mechanism for a paintball gun and wanted a compact setup. There are many industrial solenoids capable of pulling 20+ lbs but they get big or get expensive. So I ended up making a lever with a set pivot point to increase the leverage of the solenoid. Yay physics. I'm sure you could blast more amps at the solenoid, I don't know how much it would take before arc-ing the coils.

This info is 10+ yrs old, so it may be irrelevant now, but at the time the trunk solenoids were the only available option with some beef and an affordable buy in. Really not that much smaller than a delphi starter I just rebuilt.

daytonaer
daytonaer Reader
10/19/11 11:25 a.m.
tuna55 wrote: Looking for something that can push with 75 lb or so.

Good luck

Thinking outside the box, what about a shifter cable and lever to activate?

oldeskewltoy
oldeskewltoy HalfDork
10/19/11 11:36 a.m.
RossD wrote: Would a solenoid move the old style door lock 'pulls' up and down? That might be a source...

door lock motors......

Here are a pair of dor lock motors acting as an engagement device for the Toyota Corolla All-Trac transmission when a supercharger is fitted...

MG_Bryan
MG_Bryan Reader
10/19/11 11:47 a.m.

How much movement are you looking for in the solenoid itself? Does the application hinge on the speed of the solenoid or could you pull it off with electric motors and some gearing?

tuna55
tuna55 SuperDork
10/19/11 11:48 a.m.
daytonaer wrote:
tuna55 wrote: Looking for something that can push with 75 lb or so.

Good luck

Thinking outside the box, what about a shifter cable and lever to activate?

I has to be something I can activate via timer... too much force? Cut it in half and I could use two...

tuna55
tuna55 SuperDork
10/19/11 11:49 a.m.
MG_Bryan wrote: How much movement are you looking for in the solenoid itself? Does the application hinge on the speed of the solenoid or could you pull it off with electric motors and some gearing?

Like an inch...

I think it may be possible to use motors and a linear gearset or something.
I'll have to think.

MG_Bryan
MG_Bryan Reader
10/19/11 12:10 p.m.

As for solenoid that fit your specs, door poppers. Finding those in the junkyard seems pretty unlikely. Depending on how many you need, you could double up some of the lighter duty 40lb solenoid SPAL or some other manufacturer sells. I've seen just the solenoids brand new for $30.

As for more harebrained schemes, could you do it pneumatically with something like a wastegate actuator or is that a completely idiotic idea? Edit: I have no idea how much force those are capable of exerting.

foxtrapper
foxtrapper SuperDork
10/19/11 12:15 p.m.

If size doesn't matter, consider getting an old electric nailer. The solenoids on those work with 12 volts, and have a lot of power.

tuna55
tuna55 SuperDork
10/19/11 12:19 p.m.
MG_Bryan wrote: As for solenoid that fit your specs, door poppers. Finding those in the junkyard seems pretty unlikely. Depending on how many you need, you could double up some of the lighter duty 40lb solenoid SPAL or some other manufacturer sells. I've seen just the solenoids brand new for $30. As for more harebrained schemes, could you do it pneumatically with something like a wastegate actuator or is that a completely idiotic idea? Edit: I have no idea how much force those are capable of exerting.

I am considering air, but not sure how I would actuate it easily.

tuna55
tuna55 SuperDork
10/19/11 12:19 p.m.
foxtrapper wrote: If size doesn't matter, consider getting an old electric nailer. The solenoids on those work with 12 volts, and have a lot of power.

intriguing

blizazer
blizazer Reader
10/19/11 12:22 p.m.
MG_Bryan wrote: As for solenoid that fit your specs, door poppers. Finding those in the junkyard seems pretty unlikely. Depending on how many you need, you could double up some of the lighter duty 40lb solenoid SPAL or some other manufacturer sells. I've seen just the solenoids brand new for $30. As for more harebrained schemes, could you do it pneumatically with something like a wastegate actuator or is that a completely idiotic idea? Edit: I have no idea how much force those are capable of exerting.

How about an ABS pump and go hydraulic?

Or rob the motor and ballscrews out of one for a mechanical solution.

RossD
RossD SuperDork
10/19/11 12:41 p.m.

What about an old steering gear box and an "olde time" hand wheel?

44Dwarf
44Dwarf Dork
10/19/11 12:53 p.m.

12vdc linear actuators can be found in car seats. Or you can find new take offs cheap at http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=5-1554&catname=electric

They have others too but if speed is a factor likely none will do.

44

oldtin
oldtin Dork
10/19/11 1:27 p.m.

If speed is a factor, close to 100 psi will get a 1" bore pneumatic cylinder to push/pull 75 lbs. Pneumatics can operate in about 4 ms for speed. Do you need proportional control or more of an on/off switch? CO2 cartridge (might be too much psi for the cylinder), portable tank, auto a/c compressor or electric compressor for air source.

tuna55
tuna55 SuperDork
10/19/11 1:37 p.m.
oldtin wrote: If speed is a factor, close to 100 psi will get a 1" bore pneumatic cylinder to push/pull 75 lbs. Pneumatics can operate in about 4 ms for speed. Do you need proportional control or more of an on/off switch? CO2 cartridge (might be too much psi for the cylinder), portable tank, auto a/c compressor or electric compressor for air source.

On/Off, and I was considering that setup, but, as usual, we're on a challenge budget. McMaster has fairly cheap actuators, but still the rest of it is not exactly falling-out-of-the-sky cheap. That's how my Dad shifts the drag car.

Nashco
Nashco SuperDork
10/19/11 2:04 p.m.

I've got a slew of 1" bore (4" stroke...?) air linear actuators, 12v solenoid valves, and a bunch of hose and fitting stuff that I squirreled away long ago when I thought I was going to make an air powered manual trans shifter. Then I didn't make it. I got the stuff for pennies on the dollar several years ago, so I'd let some of it go cheap if you're doing something awesome and publicly displaying your progress. If it's top secret...I'm out. If you're going to let us watch and learn cool things, I think I've got what you need. If you want 75+ pounds of quick pull at 1" stroke on the cheap, hard to beat compressed air/gas.

Bryce

oldtin
oldtin Dork
10/19/11 2:06 p.m.

surplus center? Sometimes the right stuff is in stock on the cheap.

dlmater
dlmater New Reader
10/19/11 2:08 p.m.
blizazer wrote: How about an ABS pump and go hydraulic?

If you go hydraulic, perhaps you could use clutch slave cylinders as the actuators.

tuna55
tuna55 SuperDork
10/19/11 3:08 p.m.
Nashco wrote: I've got a slew of 1" bore (4" stroke...?) air linear actuators, 12v solenoid valves, and a bunch of hose and fitting stuff that I squirreled away long ago when I thought I was going to make an air powered manual trans shifter. Then I didn't make it. I got the stuff for pennies on the dollar several years ago, so I'd let some of it go cheap if you're doing something awesome and publicly displaying your progress. If it's top secret...I'm out. If you're going to let us watch and learn cool things, I think I've got what you need. If you want 75+ pounds of quick pull at 1" stroke on the cheap, hard to beat compressed air/gas. Bryce

It is top secret until the build begins. I'll make everything public as I do it at that time, though. I'll contact you then I guess.

blizazer
blizazer Reader
10/19/11 3:15 p.m.
dlmater wrote:
blizazer wrote: How about an ABS pump and go hydraulic?

If you go hydraulic, perhaps you could use clutch slave cylinders as the actuators.

I like it! The ABS system gives you electronic control valves too.

44Dwarf
44Dwarf Dork
10/20/11 6:54 a.m.
oldtin wrote: surplus center? Sometimes the right stuff is in stock on the cheap.

Oh yes they do. I check it offten as stock changes fast on good deals.

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