I am going to pay a visit to
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Sept. 13, 2011 8:06 a.m. dean1484 SuperDork
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Sept. 13, 2011 10:48 a.m. dj06482 HalfDork
Raze wrote:
At first I wasn't going to post, but now I feel obligated, my mom just had her 2006 Explorer into the shop after the rear diff grenaded at 100k miles, lucky she did, one of her rear coil springs was literally missing 2 coils (rust), she had to have new brake lines put in as well as they were corroded all to hell, she lives up in CT...
Here in CT they switched over to new chemicals for the roads during the winter that are extremely caustic. I've replaced more brake lines, fuel lines, etc. in the past 3-4 years than in 15 years before that.
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Sept. 13, 2011 11:12 a.m. Raze Dork
In reply to dj06482:
My mom told me the same thing, I was somewhat shocked, considering how high taxes are, it's surprising they're allowed to cost individuals so much. Wonder when someone will realize what's happened, survive a bad crash, and sue the state...
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Sept. 13, 2011 12:22 p.m. Knurled Dork
carzan wrote:
Considering the rust issues with Windstar subframes, I can't say I'm really shocked with rotting Expedition control arms. Sounds like another recall in the making for Ford.
I've never seen one of those, but I've done quite a few N-bodies that broke the rack free from the subframe. A few Neons too.
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Sept. 13, 2011 1:11 p.m. miatame HalfDork
Rust is another safety check for rust belt cars. Luckily my XJ is just body rot and they seemed to coat the "frame rails" and suspension parts well enough to keep the nasty rust away. My '07 Tahoe with only 50k miles has a lot more frame rust than I'd expect. The pathetic rust prevention coating looks like it has exploded away from the metal...awesome. No way I'm keeping this thing for 100k miles.
That's scary about the Expeditions. I don't really blame Ford as it is nearly impossible to replicate the actual abuse seen by winter driven vehicles up here. I'm sure it has a lot to do with the crappy steel they use and made worse since they use computer simulations to tell them the minimum thickness needed. Crappy thin steel doesn't last as long as quality thick steel...doesn't take my engineering degree to figure that one out.
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Sept. 14, 2011 10:05 a.m. dean1484 SuperDork
Well got the Tube stock today. I will start the fab work tonight. Photos to come when completed. If I get inspired I will post "how to" photos but I am sure most here know how to cut and weld things.
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Sept. 14, 2011 10:44 a.m. cwh SuperDork
This is, to me, like something from another planet! We don't have ANYTHING like that, except on the Beach Patrol trucks. They will rot out in 3 years, in spite of anti-rust treatments.
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Sept. 15, 2011 2:56 p.m. dean1484 SuperDork
cwh wrote:
This is, to me, like something from another planet! We don't have ANYTHING like that, except on the Beach Patrol trucks. They will rot out in 3 years, in spite of anti-rust treatments.
It is one of the reasons I am willing to pay the shipping costs on used porsche parts from south of the Mason Dixon line.
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Sept. 15, 2011 2:57 p.m. dean1484 SuperDork
My kingdome for a 2 1/2" by metal hole saw
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Sept. 15, 2011 3:15 p.m. fasted58 Dork
Lowes or HD oughta have that
http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=348111-28303-1771987&langId=-1&...
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Sept. 15, 2011 3:38 p.m. dean1484 SuperDork
I will have to drive over the Lowes or HD. I was trying the local hardware stores first.
Dean
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Sept. 18, 2011 8:05 a.m. dean1484 SuperDork
Ok Finished and installed and they work great. I found out that the end piece that holds the bushing is not a solid piece of tube steel it is a rolled circle but the seam is open. There for when you reuse them you have to weld them to the new tube steel in the same orientation as they were welded to the steel stamping. Other than that not much to it. My little MIG unit had no problem with the thickness. I was only on the C setting for heat. I made a couple test welds to make sure I was getting good penitration and then cut across them just to make sure (this is afterall not just a piece of sheet metal being tacked on the truck). Anyway all welds were just fine so I welded everyting up painted them and then installed them later in the day. Took it for a test drive and everything tested out.
Photos :
Cut it to size:
Beat it to fit.
In this photos the ends of the new ones are bolted to the old control arm to hold them in place while I tacked them to the new steel tube. I left them bolted in place while I did final welding. This way you get an exact match and you keep the ends square to one another.
Paint it to match.
Installed:
Comments:
This took much longer to make than I thaught. All total about 5 hours start to finish. There is a huge amout of prep time needed on the original ends in order to re use them. You spend at least 45 min on each end piece getting all the rust off and grinding down the original welds. The actuall welding is about a 20 minut deal. I jumped around from end to end so as not to over heat things. On the plus side of things the original bushings were in good shap. They are steel sleaved units so this combined with my only welding one seam at each end at a time and letting things cool resulted in no damage to the bushings. Had the rubber been pressed in to the sleave that I was welding to they would have melted.
I am pleased with how this turned out and I saved my self $250 and I also thing I have a better / stronger product. One last note is that hole saws really suck when it comes to cutting this stuff. Be careful and plan on using two hole saws. They tend to grab the metal and make things kick. I had one grab and it broke free from the two clamps I had securing the thing. I found that pre drilling the piolt hole on the press and then using the hole saw free hand with standing on the steel tube with it on a 2x4 was a much better / safer way to get this done.
Total cost was about $40 I got the steel tube from free from my local welding shop. They were cut offs in there scrap pile. $30 was Milwaukee hole saws. I had some really cheep grinding disks from harbor freight that were only good for cleaning up one end before they would denigrate. Between the rust removal and the cutting and trimming of the existing welds I went through 6 of them and what ever I used for wire.
I am pleased with the result. I will obviously monitor them just to make sure everything is ok but I don't see there being any issues.
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Sept. 18, 2011 8:51 a.m. dean1484 SuperDork
Ohya. If anyone is thinking of asking. I would have to charge at least the same as what the dealer wants for new parts to make these things. The labor time to prep the original pieces is huge. Then add in shipping your old ones to me and return shipping. I now see why the aftermarket ones I found were priced in the $500 range.
The factory stamped steel units are about $140 each and am not sure if they have the new bushings in them.
If I had an end mill that would cut the tube steel and I was using new end pieces and install new bushings the process to assemble would be much quicker. Make up a jig to set everything in for tack welding and it would be a snap to make these things up. Press in new bushings and you have a brand new part.
Hummmm I should try making a set with new parts just to see how much easier / harder it would be. I have all the measurements.
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Sept. 18, 2011 9:41 a.m. carzan HalfDork
Nice! Looks good!
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Sept. 18, 2011 1:44 p.m. Curmudgeon SuperDork
Hmmm. Saw quite a few Mercedes 210 body cars (early type) with rusty cracks at the outer end of the front lower control arm. Water can get in but it can't get back out. Scary. I guess the mfgs figure once it's gone double the amount of the warranty in miles they are home free.
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Sept. 18, 2011 1:48 p.m. Ranger50 Dork
Last I know of it was 150k miles of service before replacement. But wear items are closer to if they last out of the dealer lot in one piece you're good.
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Sept. 18, 2011 6:23 p.m. 93gsxturbo HalfDork
Looks good. I would have been tempted to notch the square stock with a handheld 4" angle grinder. With a good grinder and good disks, you would have whipped through those bad boys in no time. Just trace the template of what you need with a sharpie, grind to fit.
That would have saved you the cost/aggravation of hole saws. My experience with using hole saws for that sort of appication has been less than stellar unless the parts were in a mill or huge drillpress with a keyed work surface that would stay rigid.
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Sept. 18, 2011 6:41 p.m. Kendall_Jones Reader
You need this:
I used on all the time for roll cage builds...
KJ
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Sept. 18, 2011 7:34 p.m. JThw8 SuperDork
Kendall_Jones wrote:
You need this:
I used on all the time for roll cage builds...
KJ
^ This, excellent little tool....if only I could find mine
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Sept. 19, 2011 12:11 p.m. Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director
What about these?
E-bay listing, Item number:150665106718
E-bay listing, Item number 160652217055
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Sept. 19, 2011 12:33 p.m. Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director
From my brother at Moroso..... They are from the branch of our company called MOROSO PERFORMANCE SOLUTIONS, products that don't fit our normal product line or distribution. We sell them direct on E-Bay to save the consumer money by the product not having to go through 3 steps of distribution. We have been offering these control arms since April, 2011. They are about 1/2 the price of OEM. but are a lot better product that you don't have to worry about rusting out, they even include Energy Suspension bushings and are made here in CT. The next set that I am preposing is for stock height Jeep Liberty's which are having the same problem. Please let me know if you hear of any more vehicles that we can do. For the consumer it cheaper in the long run to buy our's than to spend 5 plus hours, reusing bushings etc. making their own.
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Sept. 19, 2011 12:56 p.m. dean1484 SuperDork
Those look just like mine. LOL. I am going to purchas a set of the uppers
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Sept. 19, 2011 1:37 p.m. dean1484 SuperDork
Can they make tubular replacement A arms for 944's that have the aluminum ones (post 85.5?) If sets of those could be sold for say $200 and they incorporated a replaceable ball joint like the early 944's I bet they would sell a fair amount of those.
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Sept. 19, 2011 1:44 p.m. Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director
i'll check.
