Rustspecs13
Rustspecs13 Reader
8/4/11 11:52 p.m.

I'm about to buy nistune for my Z31t and my S13, and am debating on what wb02 to get.

I'm looking at the innovate lm1 or what ever is their small version, and the ngk setup. I don't need any crazy features just decently priced and simple, and durable. I've heard some of the common name brands like the arm has slow sample rates and that worries me on high rpm tuning.

So what says you GRM?

dean1484
dean1484 SuperDork
8/5/11 7:03 a.m.

I just got the SLC OEM Evk kit from 14point7. It is a DIY kit not a P&P kit but it was cheep and does everything I needed for it to play nice with my MS project. Do you need data logging or do you have somthing that can do that for you that the WB can send the signal to.

RossD
RossD SuperDork
8/5/11 7:13 a.m.

Heres a recent discussion: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/14point7/38141/page1/

Zomby woof
Zomby woof SuperDork
8/5/11 7:24 a.m.

I have a good friend that specializes in stand alone tuning, and he tells me there is nothing better than these

http://wbo2.com/2j/default.htm

alfadriver
alfadriver SuperDork
8/5/11 7:45 a.m.
Zomby woof wrote: I have a good friend that specializes in stand alone tuning, and he tells me there is nothing better than these http://wbo2.com/2j/default.htm

I've got an early product from them, and really love it.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
8/5/11 8:49 a.m.

Here's another discussion:

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/wideband-o2-sensordisplays/30955/page1/

dean1484
dean1484 SuperDork
8/5/11 9:06 a.m.
Zomby woof wrote: I have a good friend that specializes in stand alone tuning, and he tells me there is nothing better than these http://wbo2.com/2j/default.htm

What is the Aus to US $$$ conversion? With out sensor at 159 AUS seems to be a good deal. Wonder what shipping to the US is.

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt Dork
8/5/11 9:30 a.m.

If you're looking at the Innovate lineup, I'd go with the MTX-L. It's as cheap as the LC-1 but includes a built in gauge and they've made several improvements based on what they've learned from the LC-1. They still have a pretty quick sample rate. Wideband response is measured in 100s of milliseconds - just the nature of the sensor - but we have been able to spot distinct ripples in the Innovate controllers that show a misfire. (Had to hook it to an oscilloscope to do that as the gauge itself has a fairly slow refresh rate so as not to turn into a blurry, unreadable mess.)

Shameless plug: We're running a 10% off coupon for GRM forum members.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/advertiser-playground/coupon-code-innovate-widebands-on-sale/38216/page1/

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
8/5/11 9:33 a.m.

^This. With the MTX-L out now, i see no reason to even bother with the LC-1 anymore, honestly.

I'm even thinking about replacing my LC-1 with one, just because i can't stand that thing.

m4ff3w
m4ff3w SuperDork
8/5/11 11:09 a.m.

I had a Zeitronix ZT-2 and loved it.

Zeitronix support is great.

I bought the unit used, but couldn't get an O2 signal, even after buying a new sensor. I emailed their support and they had me mail it in.

They replied with: "Hi, We inspected your Zt-2 kit. Here are our findings.

O2 sensor tested OK O2 harness tested OK, we will upgrade the O2 harness to a new protected harness free of charge. The Zt-2 had an intermittent connection. This was serviced free of charge to you despite the Zt-2 being 3+ years old and pass warranty period. :)

Please paypal us $12 to sales@zeitronix.com to cover the shipping cost. I always speak highly of Zeitronix whenever I get a chance.

donalson
donalson SuperDork
8/5/11 12:17 p.m.

funny how different places on the web have different findings/experiances...

a lot of the turbobricks guys have said Innovate products have given them problems.

I'm still leaning towards the AEM... $170 or so off ebay shipped with a built in gauge and 0-5v out for MS.... and no calibrate button or anything along those lines

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
8/5/11 12:23 p.m.

I love the ease of use of the AEM, but i'm not 100% sure it works with MS well. I may be getting something confused, but i swear i've seen people have problems with that.

I couldn't use it on the MX6, sadly. :(

ditchdigger
ditchdigger Dork
8/5/11 1:03 p.m.

My LC-1 is around 5 years old now and has been on 5 or 6 different motors. After sitting on the shelf for the better part of a year the original O2 sensor developed a timing error (The 8 flashes that most folks with LC-1's complain about) I replaced it with a new bosch sensor last year when they were so darn cheap and haven't had a problem since other than my old motor buring so much oil that it was coking it up but cleaning it out fixed it.

It matches dead on what the sensor on the dyno reads so I think that is good enough for me.

I don't like excess gauges in a car so the MTX-L is out. If I want to know my AFR's then I have probably changed something so I have the computer hooked up anyway. An AFR gauge dancing around constantly would just annoy and distract me.

I am probably going to go with the 14point7 SLC-OEM next time. It lacks the excessive features that I and most other folks simply don't need.

alfadriver
alfadriver SuperDork
8/5/11 1:10 p.m.

In reply to ditchdigger:

Having bought well over 100 sensors in my carreer (and using probably 50 more of a different brand), I can firmly attest that if you have one that is good, it will probably stay that way. Unless you cut a line (or melt it), or if the sensor gets damaged itself (knocking the sensor, water on a cold sensor, whatever). Of the huge numbers I've worked with, the failures are about 10 sensors to 3 wires to 1 box as a failure ratio.

The electronics are stupid simple, relatively speaking. IHMO, Innovatre, AFR, WBO2- they all make good stuff. And the sensors they use- NTK or Bosch- are also very good. You'll be happy just having one.

If you are interested in the one from down under- shoot them a note. I've only bought 2 of the basic sensors from them, but they have been super nice. They'll give you the exchange rate and shipping.

(oh, and don't bother asking what I've bought- the cheapest one was $2500... 10 years ago- they are all $3500-$5500 for what we buy).

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt Dork
8/5/11 2:16 p.m.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I love the ease of use of the AEM, but i'm not 100% sure it works with MS well. I may be getting something confused, but i swear i've seen people have problems with that. I couldn't use it on the MX6, sadly. :(

The usual problems I get contacted about AEMs deal with their analog output not agreeing with what's displayed on the gauge. For some reason, their analog output voltage seems to drift a bit from the published values. So their widebands seem to be better for display purposes than for feedback to an ECU - it kind of depends on what you're using it for.

We've used Innovate widebands in most of our project cars and they've worked out pretty well, but I must say they're are a bit picky about power and grounding. Of course, if you're tying a wideband into an ECU, it's important that you ground them in such a way as to avoid ground offsets, no matter whose wideband it is (unless it communicates with the ECU over a serial channel).

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
8/5/11 2:20 p.m.

^Ok, i was hoping i wasn't crazy.

But that's where the MTX-L comes into play. Same easy setup, similar price, similar "look," and probably easier integration.

Rustspecs13
Rustspecs13 Reader
8/7/11 8:41 p.m.

Thanks guys! Thats exactly what I needed.

Looks like I'm going with the MTX-L, Nistune can datalog so I should be set there.

Now I just have to screw around with my gauges and see where I want to put it. I have 2 spots in the dash with non working OEM units so I have room.

~Alex

donalson
donalson SuperDork
8/7/11 10:22 p.m.

heres that post I mentioned on turbobricks... http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=230695

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