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Toebra
Toebra HalfDork
11/30/17 5:16 p.m.
eastsideTim said:
Patrick said:

Rx8

Are there well documented LS swaps for these yet?  If so, I suspect they'll be out there and running for a long time.  Seems like a lot of older RX-7s have gotten a new lease on life with V8 swaps.

 

Yes there are.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
11/30/17 6:01 p.m.
The0retical said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

The MSM is lucky to have you in that regard. I look at the current state of the Mazdaspeed "community" and sometimes wish it would turn to salt.

MSO has been quite a bit better than MSF but I worry about it's longevity. Vendor wise Corksport has been doing a pretty good job supporting the platform, so I'm hoping they'll end up being the FM of the MS6 and MS3. It seems like other vendors have been backing away in favor of the Ford RS and ST products.

I should really pick up an MSP before they all disappear. Wow this was full of acronyms I apologize to everyone.

MSPs are disappearing for a reason, the engine was not great. Get an MP3 instead. Corksport was a big supporter of the GTX for a long time, so I guess you can judge their MS3 support. The market will follow the money, and once the cars fall into the "cheap beater" level without any other attributes (like the Miata track scene) then the customer base dries up.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
11/30/17 6:02 p.m.
Toebra said:
eastsideTim said:
Patrick said:

Rx8

Are there well documented LS swaps for these yet?  If so, I suspect they'll be out there and running for a long time.  Seems like a lot of older RX-7s have gotten a new lease on life with V8 swaps.

 

Yes there are.

But the FD is sexy, while the RX8 is just the goofy looking car in the first X-Men movie ;) The FD's looks are what keep that car alive. Sex never goes out of style.

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
11/30/17 6:12 p.m.
The0retical said:

As much as I loath to say this: Mazdaspeed branded cars.

There's an aftermarket for them but I suspect it'll dry up in the next 10 years which will make parts unobtainium. Also see the current state of the 323 GTX. Everyone will remember the days of how fast they were back in the day but reality will kill plans.

The rotary stuff seems to have just enough of a following that you can get new engine parts. I don't think the MS3 will be that lucky.

 

I bought injectors for a CX-7 last year.  They weren't hideously expensive, either.

 

Unlike Mazdaspeed anything when car hunting.  All of the 6s that I was looking at were in the $7-10k range.  That's dangerously close to "berk it, I just get an STi instead" territory.  Or Focus ST, which is sort of like the 3 but with greater commonness.

 

Now, Passat W8s...  VW has a long and storied history of making interesting things and then completely abandoning them,  W8 specific parts are by and large NLA.  That is what finally scared me off of actually buying one, with money, on purpose.  That, and I realized that I don't like large N/A engines, combined with the fact that I work in an area with a lot of upscale car dealerships and every time I hear a new Maserati howl by, i think it's some meathead with Flowmasters on a Mustang.  I don't think there's any way to make a V8 sound classy.

markwemple
markwemple UberDork
11/30/17 6:30 p.m.

In reply to Robbie :

Oh god, they are getting cheap! A 10k Ferrari!

NordicSaab
NordicSaab HalfDork
11/30/17 6:34 p.m.

You all are overlooking the most obvious anwser because it is so new, the Alfa Romeo US line is every bit inline with what the Bi Turbo was. 

 All their models have had reliability issues since new. This will onlt get worse with time... what are you left with? 

A car with minimal part support, an air of exclusivity, and no one competent to work on them. Sound familiar? 

SEADave
SEADave HalfDork
11/30/17 6:53 p.m.

I hate to say it, but new(BMW) MINI's.   Seem to see a lot with bad engines, and not even all that old either.   

The0retical
The0retical SuperDork
11/30/17 7:11 p.m.

In reply to eastsideTim :

Both Racing Beat and Billet Rotary manufacture new housings. Expensive but they exist.

Furious_E
Furious_E SuperDork
11/30/17 7:13 p.m.
Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
11/30/17 7:17 p.m.
The0retical said:

In reply to eastsideTim :

Both Racing Beat and Billet Rotary manufacture new housings. Expensive but they exist.

RB definitely does not manufacture new rotor housings.  I have heard that Billet Rotary does, but haven't seen any kind of catalog or price.

 

The largest issue is that ROTORS are largely NLA.  The rotors are wear items.  The apex seal slots hammer out if you let the engines go too long before rebuild, and they get destroyed if you FOD the engine.  I've been looking for a long time for a good pair of 12A rotors and keep coming up blank.

Whoever makes the carbon-aluminum apex seals (the ones that are rotor housing friendly) apparently stopped.  12A carbons are NLA.

mtn
mtn MegaDork
11/30/17 7:51 p.m.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim UltraDork
11/30/17 7:54 p.m.
mtn said:

Oh god yes.  I’m dumb enough I might even buy one of those if the right deal falls into my lap.

mtn
mtn MegaDork
11/30/17 8:04 p.m.

Although, a quick autotrader search shows me they're more expensive than I anticipated. 

conesare2seconds
conesare2seconds Dork
11/30/17 9:51 p.m.

I’ll nominate recent Bentleys with the Volkswagen “W” engines. Just nope. 

Toebra
Toebra HalfDork
11/30/17 9:54 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:

But the FD is sexy, while the RX8 is just the goofy looking car in the first X-Men movie ;) The FD's looks are what keep that car alive. Sex never goes out of style.

es Verdat

944 and the FD are both excellent homes for V-8 motors, IMHO

 

914 ain't bad either

 

Oh yeah, the new Alfa sedan, Giulietta  is the Biturbo of today

The0retical
The0retical SuperDork
11/30/17 9:55 p.m.

In reply to Knurled. :

Not arguing just wondering who produces them for RB? They seem to be clear that they're not NOS.

My mistake with Billet Rotary. I thought they already produced housings but their catalog only reflects NOS housings and billet end plates.

There's enough of a following there that I'm sure someone will be offering new rotors and housings in the near future.

The0retical
The0retical SuperDork
11/30/17 10:17 p.m.
Knurled. said:
The0retical said:

In reply to eastsideTim :

Both Racing Beat and Billet Rotary manufacture new housings. Expensive but they exist.

RB definitely does not manufacture new rotor housings.  I have heard that Billet Rotary does, but haven't seen any kind of catalog or price.

 

The largest issue is that ROTORS are largely NLA.  The rotors are wear items.  The apex seal slots hammer out if you let the engines go too long before rebuild, and they get destroyed if you FOD the engine.  I've been looking for a long time for a good pair of 12A rotors and keep coming up blank.

Whoever makes the carbon-aluminum apex seals (the ones that are rotor housing friendly) apparently stopped.  12A carbons are NLA.

Want to go in on a 5 axis milling machine with me? I got some hookups.

ssswitch
ssswitch Dork
11/30/17 10:28 p.m.

I'd guess CL65 AMG would be a good candidate to be "the new BiTurbo."

Two turbos, twelve cylinders, twin spark on two wasted spark coilpacks for a total of 24 plugs, grotesque depreciation, dozens of possible over-$1000-to-fix issues in every component of the car, and very expensive maintenance parts on top of the usual Mercedes-dealer markup on any magic service.

No word on whether the valvetrain is as pants-on-head-insane as the BiTurbo's offset shims though.

The SL55 AMG might be a good candidate too: the ABS system on it and a bunch of other period Mercs has a built in hourmeter that will suicide the pump in software as soon as it thinks you've gotten enough brake pedal pushes out of it. Luckily, there's a cheap reset tool that just turns the counter back to zero, although it's ambiguous as to whether or not doing so makes the entire braking system eventually fail. You also have to follow a special technique to disable the ABS system so that it is safe to change pads and rotors.

I counted I push the brakes 140 times each way on my 14 mile trip to work, 280 times a day, 1400 times a week... [..]

I would run out of pedal pushes again in 3.5 years..by then I will be ready to get rid of the car.

Driven5
Driven5 SuperDork
11/30/17 11:31 p.m.

In reply to ssswitch :

Beat me to it... My first thought for the 'new BiturboBiturbo' is the Mercedes V12 Biturbo cars.

JohnLClark
JohnLClark New Reader
12/1/17 1:36 a.m.

I would think any Audi with the W12  It seems like the Phaeton taken to the extreme.  Also any Mercedes E or S class made in the last few years with the new safety advances.

 

mtn
mtn MegaDork
12/1/17 3:50 a.m.

One thing that I think most of these suggestions--including mine--are missing is that many were reliable when new, at least with vigorous maintenance. The BiTurbo was not. You'd be lucky to get to 30k miles in one. 

Even the Merc 12 cylinders will get you 30k miles mostly trouble free. I think that the original post of a new Maserati is the winner. 

rothwem
rothwem New Reader
12/1/17 7:14 a.m.

I tend to think the answer is the E9x 335i.  It had problems off the bat with high pressure fuel pumps and even though those are supposedly fixed, there's a whole other host of problems like wastegates, injectors, and the ever-present DI carbon buildup.  The bummer is that they're great driving cars, and they're cheap now (especially the 07-08 cars) since everyone knows they're unreliable POSes.  Almost cheap enough to tempt me...NO! SNAP OUT OF IT!

 

 

02Pilot
02Pilot Dork
12/1/17 7:39 a.m.
rothwem said:

I tend to think the answer is the E9x 335i.  It had problems off the bat with high pressure fuel pumps and even though those are supposedly fixed, there's a whole other host of problems like wastegates, injectors, and the ever-present DI carbon buildup.  The bummer is that they're great driving cars, and they're cheap now (especially the 07-08 cars) since everyone knows they're unreliable POSes.  Almost cheap enough to tempt me...NO! SNAP OUT OF IT!

 

 

While I'm not a fan of the turbo versions of the N5x motors, I don't think the cars that used them are anywhere near BiTurbo levels of difficulty. There are so many around, such widespread parts support, and so many shops that know how to work on them that, while they may be expensive and less reliable than one might like, it's not that hard to keep them on the road.

The VW W8 Passat and Phaeton, now those things are going to be slowly decaying lawn ornaments as part dry up. My mother had a W8 Passat for a while that, while fun to drive, had two apparently common flaws that would each require five figure repairs (ten years ago; who knows if they're repairable at all now) to make right when they manifested themselves. I convinced her to sell it before either occurred, thankfully.

mad_machine
mad_machine MegaDork
12/1/17 8:54 a.m.

I think most of you missed the point on the BiTurbo. It wasn't that it cost a lot to fix, or that parts were hard to come by, it was the fact that they would break just sitting in the driveway waiting to be repaired for something else. Even when they were new, and this is a relatively affluent area, I only sever saw ONE moving under it's own power. We even had a local dealership who also sold Lamborghinis, the dealer dropped Maserati as quickly they could.

 

The Biturbo was all the performance of a Ferrari with all the reliability, depreciation, and build quality of a Fiat Strada

markwemple
markwemple UberDork
12/1/17 9:11 a.m.

I think we need to differentiate between a high maintenance car and one that is just crap. The Biturbo was just crap. I'd palce most of Mopar's stuff there if they weren't at least exotic. Heck, I think the Viper should be on this list. And how about the viper powered dodge truck.

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