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Ashyukun
Ashyukun GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
12/8/16 3:26 p.m.

With the El Camino and all of its associated parts expected to be out of the garage before Christmas, I will hopefully finally be getting the DeLorean into the garage and started on the extensive overhaul that it needs- including swapping in something more substantial for it's wildly underwhelming and anemic PRV engine.

Earlier this year I picked up a Park Avenue Ultra and pulled the 2nd-gen supercharged 3800 with the intend of using it as the new engine for the DMC- and that's still a very strong contender given I already own it and have it sitting in my garage and know firsthand how powerful of an engine it is: if it can make the Park Avenue, which dwarfs even the rather heavy DMC, absolutely fly it will do quite well in the lighter car.

But- it's not without its problems. The 3800SC was never used, that I can tell, in a longitudinal application- and the throttle body sits on what would be on the back (front in a rear-engine configuration like the DMC) of the engine when mounted longitudinally, and on most cars that would mean that it severely interferes with the firewall. There's the chance this won't be the case with the DMC- it after all in stock exhaust form had a crossover pipe that want over the top of the transmission forward of the engine which might mean enough clearance for the throttle body and intake hose- but it will be difficult to tell until I get the car in the garage and start really closely measuring things.

For reference, according to the specs, the L67 Supercharged 3800 from the Park Avenue Ultra puts out 240HP and 280ft-lbs of torque.

So, I've been considering other engines that have seen longitudinal use.

Ford supercharged V6 'Essex' (from a Ford Supercoupe): Very similar in general to the 3800, but in stock form puts out less horsepower at 210HP but more torque at 315ft-lbs. Also has the advantage of having the A/C compressor and the alt in the same place as the PRV does (though I'd need a delete pulley for the power steering)

GM 5.3 V8- More power regardless of the year, but also larger and heavier I believe, and heavier isn't something that I really need in the already rear-heavy DMC.

Mazda 13B-MSP Renesis- The original engine that I had wanted to swap into the DMC, since the original design for the car back in its development stages called for using a rotary engine that was being developed by a company in Europe that never ended up being produced. Has several advantages over the other engines, namely that it would be the lightest by far and makes fairly good power normally aspirated. I also just happen to love rotary engines, and think it would be a fun one to have in the car, but I'd have to get one and would likely have to rebuild one (not too much of a concern, I've rebuild at 13B before) to get it for a reasonable price.

What do you guys think? There's a definite appeal to the idea of one of the supercharged engines in the back of the DMC, but the rotary would put out about as much power (but less torque), be lighter, and rev to infinity and beyond- but I don't already own one...

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
12/8/16 3:28 p.m.

A rotary definitely fits the criteria that John Delorean was going for. I don't know if it's practical.

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 PowerDork
12/8/16 3:31 p.m.

Buick. Better to dance with the devil you know, than the devil you don't.

TheV8Kid
TheV8Kid Reader
12/8/16 3:38 p.m.

Ls4. 5.3l that came in Chevy Impala SS. Aluminum block. Aluminum heads. Longitudinally mounted. 303hp from the factory.

Take the whole front subrame. It is aluminum too. It's something I would love to do.

SilverFleet
SilverFleet UberDork
12/8/16 3:39 p.m.

What about one of those all aluminum 5.3's from an FWD Impala SS? My guess is that it weighs close to what the 3.8SC weighs.

A 20B would be my next choice.

Edit: Beat by a Nelson!

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy PowerDork
12/8/16 3:41 p.m.

Is the bellhousing a separate thing on the trans? I ask, because a guy might be able to adapt a different Volvo bellhousing, and then install a heavily turbocharged redblock Volvo. If custom bellhousing is the only solution, use the Buick. Certainly cheapest option, since you already own it.

TheV8Kid
TheV8Kid Reader
12/8/16 3:44 p.m.
SilverFleet wrote: Edit: Beat by a Nelson!

What can I say. It's in the genes.

jstein77
jstein77 UltraDork
12/8/16 3:51 p.m.

There's got to be a way to reorient that intake. I'd either stick with the Buick or use a newish Mustang V-6, the one with 305 hp. You might be able to find a wrecked Mustang or two.

daeman
daeman HalfDork
12/8/16 3:51 p.m.

L67's were used in longitudinal configuration in Holden commodores.

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 PowerDork
12/8/16 3:53 p.m.

In reply to jstein77:

Problem would be getting the debris out of the intake. You know, flat brimmed ballcaps and monster cans.....

Ashyukun
Ashyukun GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
12/8/16 4:10 p.m.

From the Bad Idea Generator that is occasionally my brain....

  1. Buy this.
  2. Pull engine out to rebuild for the DMC
  3. Figure out how to put the L67 into the RX-8
  4. Challenge car!

One thing that also plays into the decision and was touched on by Streetwiseguy is that whatever it is also needs to have been used at some point with a manual transmission so there is a flywheel & clutch plate setup available for it- and at least from what I've seen in looking at it preliminarily the LS4 wasn't used mated to anything but an automatic so it will take a good bit of work to make fit with the DeLorean's 5-speed (I know it's been discussed here before, but I never saw a workable solution put into place).

Regardless of what I use, I'll have to make a custom bellhousing adapter- I'm not 100% certain as to whether the bellhousing is separate from the transmission or not. Both engine and transmission will have to be pulled though, as the transmission has a weak point I need to correct before putting something more powerful than the PRV into the car.

Ashyukun
Ashyukun GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
12/8/16 4:11 p.m.
tuna55 wrote: A rotary definitely fits the criteria that John Delorean was going for. I don't know if it's practical.

'Practical' has never remotely been a concern when it comes to the DeLorean. It's my unabashedly un-practical vehicle.

mazdeuce
mazdeuce UltimaDork
12/8/16 4:31 p.m.
Streetwiseguy wrote: Is the bellhousing a separate thing on the trans? I ask, because a guy might be able to adapt a different Volvo bellhousing, and then install a heavily turbocharged redblock Volvo. If custom bellhousing is the only solution, use the Buick. Certainly cheapest option, since you already own it.

I was also wondering if you'd be lucky enough for a better Volvo engine to bolt to the transmission.

bentwrench
bentwrench Dork
12/8/16 4:47 p.m.

Ford Duratec V6 used longitudinally in a Lincoln and Jaguar 220hp And with twin turbos in a Nolan putting out more torques than you will ever use! 400+hp!

nedc
nedc New Reader
12/8/16 4:51 p.m.

The PRV or B27 bellhousing is specific to that motor (I think) but the transmission will work with a red block- you just need a red block bell housing. I have a few lying around as well as a B23FT if you're interested.

Trackmouse
Trackmouse Dork
12/8/16 4:58 p.m.

The dmc is a weird car. Keep it wierd. Do something never before seen. Twin D.C. Brushless. Or twin 'busa turbo.

Sonic
Sonic SuperDork
12/8/16 5:24 p.m.

Of the choices you listed the 3800 is the most practical. The non SC was in Camaros, the hard part is making an elbow for the intake mani to TB. We have a 3800sc swapped into a TR7 for lemons, it hauls ass and once we sorted some issues it has been pretty reliable. They are also cheap and available everywhere and you can turn up the boost later.

You may want to consider a Honda j series V6. Lightweight, 200-300hp depending on version, used in swaps so off the shelf solutions are available to run the engine easily, readily available and fairly cheap. Solutions exist for making the intake mani work for north/south applications, particularly from Miata swaps.

curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
12/8/16 5:27 p.m.

IIRC, the DC12 isn't that heavy. Under 3000 right? Not a lightweight by any means, but not like it really needs a massive amount of displacement.

S52? Slap some turbos on an EZ30 or EZ36?

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/8/16 5:41 p.m.

I would be tempted to try to keep it in the "family" as the car came with a PRV (Peugeot, Renault, Volvo) engine, I would drop a VQ in there as Citroen, Nissan, and Peugeot are all part of the same company now

singleslammer
singleslammer PowerDork
12/8/16 5:44 p.m.

In reply to trackmouse:

I think a renesis is pretty weird.

Stampie
Stampie GRM+ Memberand Dork
12/8/16 5:44 p.m.

The Essex Ford shouldn't need a pully to delete the power steering. Should be able to go straight up from the crank to the alternator. It is a light engine. I'm just learning more about it but we're going to use a NA one in one of our builds.

That said you have the GM engine. A lot to be said for working with what ya got.

Ashyukun
Ashyukun GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
12/8/16 6:10 p.m.
curtis73 wrote: IIRC, the DC12 isn't that heavy. Under 3000 right? Not a lightweight by any means, but not like it really needs a massive amount of displacement. S52? Slap some turbos on an EZ30 or EZ36?

It's about 3500 iirc, haven't looked at the door plate in a bit.

I'm not looking for ludicrous power- at best it will get run around the autocross course for S&Gs and otherwise driven around town and on occasional road trips (probably rarely as it has very little cargo capacity for SWMBO & I). So the mid-200's for HP would be fine with me since it will be a considerable upgrade from the PRV's original 145 HP. My old Saturn had a better power to weight ratio than the DMC-12 does...

Trackmouse
Trackmouse Dork
12/8/16 6:30 p.m.
singleslammer wrote: In reply to trackmouse: I think a renesis is pretty weird.

You're right it is.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/8/16 6:34 p.m.
Trackmouse wrote: The dmc is a weird car. Keep it wierd. Do something never before seen. Twin D.C. Brushless. Or twin 'busa turbo.

Sadly a DeLorean doesn't have the space or lightness to accommodate a battery pack...I was thinking just drop a Tesla powertrain in there, the rear motor/inverter/diff assembly would probably even fit as-is. DeLorean EVs have been done before many times though - either sluggish golf carts or ultra-short-range toys.

Most of the choices presented aren't particularly interesting, except the Renesis which will make the car as a whole much too "interesting." At least have a reliable engine in there. So I'd say either stick with the 3800 because it works and it's what you have, or put an ultra-modern boosted I4 or V6 in there so it'll be powerful and efficient and reliable.

pres589
pres589 UberDork
12/8/16 7:00 p.m.

LS4 is probably the best sounding engine on the list although a ported rotary can also sound nice. So, yeah, LS4 gets my vote.

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