Which Engine: DMC-12 Engine Swap Edition

I think that a newly rebuilt Renesis would be plenty reliable, especially for the amount of miles I expect someone with a Delorean to drive. A 9K rpm rotary scream coming out of the back of a Delorean sounds about perfect to me.

If you go Buick, you could do a square air filter in the cabin with the lid painted like a flux capacitor.

Toss a regular Camaro intake on your supercharged 3800, sell the supercharger, and replace it with a turbocharger. I doubt the computer cares how the boost is made, and turbo exhaust routing lets you clear obstacles easier than headers.

I was just looking at a torque curve plot on a Renesis vs 13B somewhere today and having driven and raced more than a couple of 13Bs and loving them, I think the Renesis would make me love it even more. Although there are some issues getting all the ports and things working properly. But since you'd be the one doing it and not me I say go for it. (and then teach the rest of us how to do it)

I am one of those who has put a ton of miles both on street and track with the 13b and I've never experience one lick of problems with the engine.

But I recognized how important heat control was and always was mindful of that. I also made sure I used an oil that burned cleanly and didn't leave a lot of ash to destroy the seals.

I put a small puddle of multiple oils on a cookie sheet and cooked them in the broiler of the oven one day when my wife was gone to see which brands cooked off the cleanest. You know, it takes days to get that smell out of the house, not the couple of hours that I had.

The easy button for the swap is the last of the PRV-6, the 3.0 liter version from the last of the Eagle Premier/Dodge Monaco line. It's a bolt-in.

I'm going to buck the trend here. Keep the PRV. I know it's despised over here, but they can make great power. In the Alpine A610 there were varients up to 300hp from memory and there are lot's of turbo ones making E36 M3 loads of power. By the time you've faffed around with finding an engine, getting it to fit (always the easy part) and making it run properly in it's new home I bet you could rebuild the PRV engine and make good, drivable and reliable power out of it.

If you really must swap it, go light. Turbo 2.0 or 2.3 Duratec. Or if you don't want to do that, how about the mad mad sound of a pissed off 5 cyl Volvo 2.5 turbo?

I'd lean towards the 3800, or a newer 3.0 PRV with megasquirt. Of course, finding a Renault Medallion, Dodge Monaco, or Eagle Premier nowadays is darn near impossible, much less one with a good engine. Then there's the matter of tracking down parts for it.

Of course, I know someone who will be looking to sell a rebuildable GM 4.3 soon, and I know that's been swapped into a DeLorean before...

I'm not worried about the reliability of the Renesis- I owned a convertible FC for about 5 years and it did just fine with how much I drove it. Impressively so actually given the first engine I had in it was pulled from a junkyard parts car and dropped in without any internal checking and ran great for 3 years until I rebuilt the original engine and swapped it back in. The DMC would get driven even less than that was since I'm now married it's not as easy to hop into the 2-seat sports car and just go someplace- it'll almost certainly not get driven much per year as a 'normal' car.

Honestly, I'm largely disinclined to either try and make more power with the stock PRV or swap in another one. It may take a good bit more engineering and work to make a different engine work in the car, but it will take a lot more money to make anywhere near decent power with the existing PRV and the final-form EFI PRVs are nigh impossible to come by (and still take a good bit of work to get running in the DMC). My PRV is already making better power than stock with a free-flowing exhaust and a carb replacing the K-Jet system it came with (mine was shot and it was cheaper and easier to get the carb conversion).

There are very limited sources for some of the key components- like an improved camshaft- necessary to make more power in the PRV. The only source I've found for that camshaft for example is DeLorean Performance Industries, and each one (and as an OHC engine the PRV requires 2...) costs $600. Their EFI kit installed is $6,000- I'd figure at best that it would be half that for just the parts, probably more since it shouldn't take that much labor. That will still likely net under 200HP- getting over 200 would almost certainly require forced induction. DPI's cheapest twin-turbo kit is over $5,000 for just the parts. DMC's own 'Stage II' upgrade that is supposed to bump the engine from 145bhp to 198bph is $7,000 (not including I believe sending them the engine, and I don't see anywhere to just buy the parts to do it- and that's not accounting for that it's meant for the K-JET which mine doesn't have). There's a decent chance I'd be able to engineer a way to use some of the existing upgrades (like the headers I have on it) to lower that cost- but it's doubtless going to be quite up there in price to get anywhere near the power out of the PRV that I would get inherently with a newer engine like the L67 or the Renesis.

That, and I'm inclined to do something more unique and interesting- if I've got to tear the car down that far anyway and likely rewire a good portion of it, I may as well bring the engine more up-to-date too!

If the car is going under major surgery anyway, a random thought: Why does the engine have to be mounted longitudinally? Rear engine/RWD should be a natural fit for the front engine/FWD Buick motor. Convert the D to automatic and let the torque curve carry you around in comfort the way the GM engineers intended.

I'm guessing there are plenty of reasons why that wouldn't work, just spitballing here.

I would say comparing the cost of doing a custom engine swap yourself vs the bolt-in EFI and turbo kits someone else did the time figuring out is very much apples to oranges. So while i'm not against you ignoring the power options for the PRV motor, i think quoting full retail prices as a disincentive while implying that a motor swap would be cheaper because you're doing it yourself is disingenuous.

KyAllroad wrote: If the car is going under major surgery anyway, a random thought: Why does the engine have to be mounted longitudinally? Rear engine/RWD should be a natural fit for the front engine/FWD Buick motor. Convert the D to automatic and let the torque curve carry you around in comfort the way the GM engineers intended. I'm guessing there are plenty of reasons why that wouldn't work, just spitballing here.

Where I expect this will run into trouble is the fact that the transaxle is mounted pretty solidly forward of the engine, so getting the driveshafts to go from the transmission to the wheels would be more of a challenge since it's a true rear-engine and not a mid.

This was the best picture I could find to illustrate this:

In that case you need a 997 Turbo engine in there. 470hp should move that DMC along.

I think he's trying to keep from destroying the transmission, too

The more I think about what someone suggested upthread, the more intriguing it sounds - 4 cylinderVolvo turbo. But I still fully support the 3800. Regarding the intake/throttle body issues, my welder can be converted to weld aluminum

Ashyukun wrote:

curtis73 wrote: IIRC, the DC12 isn't that heavy. Under 3000 right? Not a lightweight by any means, but not like it really needs a massive amount of displacement. S52? Slap some turbos on an EZ30 or EZ36?

It's about 3500 iirc, haven't looked at the door plate in a bit. I'm not looking for ludicrous power- at best it will get run around the autocross course for S&Gs and otherwise driven around town and on occasional road trips (probably rarely as it has very little cargo capacity for SWMBO & I). So the mid-200's for HP would be fine with me since it will be a considerable upgrade from the PRV's original 145 HP. My old Saturn had a better power to weight ratio than the DMC-12 does...

Wiki says 2712 lbs. Door plate doesn't have actual weight on it, it has the GVWR (the MAXIMUM, with a load, passengers, fuel, etc.)

I worked with a guy who put a V6 out of a 200x Maxima in his with a Porsche transaxle. It came out nice and was a ~2X power of the PRV. It seemed like a great choice.

If you participate in the community you may be familiar with his car already. His name is Marc (or Mark? - I can't recall). He also has a DeLorean with a twin-turbo PRV that I think he said was one of a few prototypes made right around the time it all went sideways.

Vigo wrote: I would say comparing the cost of doing a custom engine swap yourself vs the bolt-in EFI and turbo kits someone else did the time figuring out is very much apples to oranges. So while i'm not against you ignoring the power options for the PRV motor, i think quoting full retail prices as a disincentive while implying that a motor swap would be cheaper because you're doing it yourself is disingenuous.

Of course, the EFI conversion and coming up with a way to turbo it would be cheaper were I doing it myself like I'd be doing the work to convert over the other engines- but there are some things (like the camshafts) that I'd have no choice but to purchase, and the support and options for the PRV are a lot more limited than those for the newer engines.

And honestly, I'd just rather be using a newer engine anyway as a personal preference. The 'smartest' thing to do would be absolutely nothing- to do basic overhaul work on the engine & transmission when I have the car apart since on the whole there isn't anything terribly wrong with the engine. But nobody ever accused many of us here of always being 'smart' when it comes to what we do with our cars.

20B

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw8d48RYgBo

mfennell wrote: I worked with a guy who put a V6 out of a 200x Maxima in his with a Porsche transaxle. It came out nice and was a ~2X power of the PRV. It seemed like a great choice. If you participate in the community you may be familiar with his car already. His name is Marc (or Mark? - I can't recall). He also has a DeLorean with a twin-turbo PRV that I think he said was one of a few prototypes made right around the time it all went sideways.

I've probably seen that car at one of the DeLorean Car Shows I've been to. I've seen a number of rather well-done swaps including the LS-swapped one that was a beast. The Twin-Turbo model was one that was being played around with as a potential factory option had the company not gone under- it was as I understand it far closer to the power that the car was intended to have.

The 20B swapped one used a Porsche transaxle as well. Honestly the stock DMC one with a small mod (there's a coupler that is a really weak point, I already have the upgraded one) will easily take the power I'm looking to put through it. The LS1 swapped car, for example, is still using the stock transaxle with the same mod...

Looking at the chassis...

...my first thought is a 911 transmission connected to a LSX.

I really like the electric idea (and DMC Texas has built a couple).

LS3 coupled to a Porsche transaxle for big power.

The Buick thing doesn't do anything for me, other than cheap. Doesn't seem to fit the car.

In homage to John D, maybe you can engineer something that will run on cocaine.

In reply to SVreX:

Now you cut that out

Aquitted

John was looking for a automobile of the future. In many ways, he did, just badly. I think the rotary is the perfect fit here, so I re-iterate my suggestion.

In reply to tuna55:

He was not found not guilty. He was released because the sting was considered entrapment. Don't think I can give him a pass on those terms.

But yes you are right, I will cut it out.

SVreX wrote: In reply to tuna55: He was not found not guilty. He was released because the sting was considered entrapment. Don't think I can give him a pass on those terms. But yes you are right, I will cut it out.

I read on it in detail, in my opinion he was innocent. Completely. His car company was failing, but was not a criminal.

In reply to tuna55:

I think he is innocent too.

I've just read that story told several ways. Version 1 is the one you forwarded, Version 2 has him making bad decisions because of his failing company and being a bit more complicit, in the hopes of finding capital to save the company, but getting off the hook because the cops screwed up.

It's OK. We all love Deloreans.

I'll avoid getting into the quagmire of the politics/business of the original DMC- it's just a pity that they weren't able to keep going so we could have seen what else they'd have come up with.

Honestly I'd not be wholly opposed to an electric/hybrid- it certainly would fit with the futuristic bend of the car, but as has been stated it would be difficult to fit the battery pack. I've seen both the ~cough~Production~cough~ electric DMC-12 from DMC-H and one the was built by an owner and while both were impressive neither were quite up my alley (especially with the ~$100k price tag that DMC-H had put on theirs when they were claiming they were going to make them...). Would I love to be able to take a hybrid drivetrain (and regen brakes) and put them in the car? Of course, it would be awesome, but both electric versions I've seen replaced pretty much the gas tank and all of the under-bonnet (front luggage cover, what's the hood on most cars) with batteries so you'd not have space for a gas tank as well for a hybrid. Coupling this with the aforementioned concern of how a FWD engine/trans would fit with the current engine placement...