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carguy123
carguy123 HalfDork
7/17/08 10:36 p.m.

The R and K series Honda is normal rotation.

Look long and hard at the R18 from the newer Hondas. I don't know what longitudinal tranny fits tho. Maybe one from an S2000?

The R18 has a very unHondalike torque curve and puts out 140 hp on regular gas. With some tuning to run on premium the internet says it jumps to 160-170 plus you can up the redline.

This engine is very interesting in it's build, very 21st century features. It comes with an integral exhaust manifold which has been used like a factory turbo manifold. Very unique and stiff block. It is a SOHC so less weight up high when compared to a DOHC.

Honda says it is lighter than the later model D series engine. I don't know the differences between the early D series (very small) and the later D series but if the later is anywhere near the size of the early model that's one light engine!

The K is HUGE!!!! I have sat it side by side with a B series and a Rover engine and it just towers over the others.

Here are a couple of links http://world.honda.com/HDTV/news/2005-4050705a/ - very interesting cutaway video http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/tech/0704_ht_r18_engine/index.html

BTW if anyone ever finds any dimensions or weights, I'd be interested in knowing them.

Stuc
Stuc Reader
7/17/08 11:06 p.m.

That honda video is cool! Damn they have a lot of features on that engine... curious how people are going to approach tuning it! MAP and AFM sensors, as well as a linear airflow sensor. I think the 2-length intake is kind of cool, without the moving parts I've seen pictures of an the Mazda 787 racecar, just a simple valve.

And did it say a 2 piece block? Not sure how I like that.

Also, what is a 'cracked piston rod'?

Oh right, we're talking about a Sprite here. Well... I don't have any experience myself, but I can certainly say the 20v 4age I have is a huge headache. Probably when I figure out what the hell it's doing my opinion will completely change, but I like the idea of a rotary in there for some reason. Also, the newer american suggestions are pretty cool too.

Jensenman
Jensenman SuperDork
7/18/08 7:04 a.m.
Tommy Suddard wrote:
Jensenman wrote: Heck, no. Go Rotary!!!! Get a 13B, fabricate a 'mustache bar' engine mount bracket, drop it in and hang on tight! ~145 HP in stock form, with a big carb and open exhaust ~185 HP. Fuel injected with free flow exhaust and the right programming etc ~200 HP.

Nobody is crazy enough to put a 200 hp+ Rotary engine in a small British car!

Methinks the apple don't fall far from the tree. Steve E. still remembers a lot of the fab work, ya might want to shoot him an Email.

Tim Baxter
Tim Baxter Online Editor
7/18/08 7:09 a.m.

You know, after missing for years, we just brought the Ro-Spit project back to the web site: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/project-cars/ro-spit/

cghstang
cghstang New Reader
7/18/08 8:01 a.m.
oldopelguy wrote: I'm using the 3-cylinder Suzuki 1.0L with a Samurai trans in my Midget, but I'm building it for economy and not hp. Mine's a bit lighter than your standard Spridget, though, with the Arkley kit, so it should still be decently fun to drive.

I'd love to see more about this. I had a 3 banger metro and often had thoughts combining that mill with real fuel injection, a turbo, and rwd goodness.

bravenrace
bravenrace HalfDork
7/18/08 8:03 a.m.

I'm considering a miata drivetrain for my TVR. One thing I like about the miata engine (amongst many others) is that it already has a vintage look. In fact, it looks remarkably like a Lotus twin cam on the top. Given that you can do almost anything you want with that engine, it's lot cheaper than most others offered here, and it's easy to find, I don't see any reason to consider anything else.

ignorant
ignorant SuperDork
7/18/08 8:17 a.m.
Stuc wrote: Also, what is a 'cracked piston rod'? .

Powdered metal rod.. crack the big end.. Faster and cheaper to make. Stronger as well. Harder to work on because you can't mess up the orientation of the main cap or swap them between rods.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecting_rod

I also like the idea of a slightly built 1275. A supercharged one would be fun.

mad_machine
mad_machine SuperDork
7/18/08 8:51 a.m.

well, how about a fiat 132 series engine from a 124 spider? With carbs (or even better, megasquirt!) you can easily see 140+ hp and still get to keep the car vintage. It comes with a small 5 speed trans (just don't powershift it) and tuning is just as easy as talking to Guy Croft over in the UK

ignorant
ignorant SuperDork
7/18/08 9:26 a.m.
mad_machine wrote: well, how about a fiat 132 series engine from a 124 spider? With carbs (or even better, megasquirt!) you can easily see 140+ hp and still get to keep the car vintage. It comes with a small 5 speed trans (just don't powershift it) and tuning is just as easy as talking to Guy Croft over in the UK

there is a sprite with a 1608 twin cam in it on youtube.. lame vid, but good idea.

Woodyhfd
Woodyhfd HalfDork
7/18/08 11:16 a.m.

It's hard to believe that no one here has suggested the Allison 1710-115. It seems like such an obvious choice. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Allison_1710-115_V12_Aircraft_engine.jpg

digdug18
digdug18 New Reader
7/18/08 12:40 p.m.

Thanks for all of your good suggestions.

As for the D/B series honds's being the wrong way round, if I went that way, I'd grab a front off a civic at the junk yard and go for a front wheel drive, just to be different. I'd just weld in the front drivetrain outta a cable trans car, as long with the suspension and all the knick nacks, lol, so pre-93 integras, and pre-91 civics,

I've driven a V8 sprite before, and so long as its a small motor, such as a 289 or so they arent half bad to drive, i mean the fuel milage sucks, but thats to be expected.

And I'm sorry but the midget and the sprite arent the same cars, the midget has about 10lbs of added crap hanging on the outside to weigh it down, i'm talking about that huge emblem and the added chrome, and those rubber bumpers are HOT, lol.

The viable motors I'm looking into right now are both ford and chevy small blocks and ford zetecs. Mostly because I can get the swaps for under $500 from my local junk man.

Anyway, I hope all of you have a nice weekend...

Andrew

John Brown
John Brown SuperDork
7/18/08 2:50 p.m.

Andrew, take this with a grain of salt.

Look into a 3.4L Camarobird engine with a manual transmission.

They are as cheap as anything out there, nicely packaged, mke neat sounds with the right exhaust and can be made very light.

DILYSI Dave
DILYSI Dave SuperDork
7/18/08 2:59 p.m.

Moderate power - Miata

High Power N/A - S2000

High Power F/I - SR20DET

Chris_V
Chris_V SuperDork
7/18/08 3:42 p.m.
ImpishSprite
ImpishSprite None
7/18/08 4:11 p.m.

Yamaha R1, GSXR1300, Kawasaki ZX10R...Quaffe reverse box or make your own starter engine geared reverse off the drive shaft. The torque is low enough you can keep the stock 3.7 Rear axle. ANYTHING else will require a new rear axle or at the minimum a major upgrade to stronger shafts.

There is a company that makes an inline sequential gearbox in 5 or 6 speed to run a B Series Honda engine in a RWD application, but without a price sheet, rough guess would be $5K.

Now you mention daily driver, but you didn't happen to mention driving conditions. I ask because it will also effect what you want. If its stop and go street driving, you want a motor that gets good mileage at idle, if its freeway, you want a motor that will cruise at freeway speed and get good mileage.

As an aside, the only difference between a Sprite and Midget from the firewall forward is the exterior sheetmetal. When you pull all that off, the Dimensions of the fenders, fender placement, suspension, steering is identical. So if it fits in a Midget, it will fit in a Sprite. Everything else is trim package.

oldopelguy
oldopelguy HalfDork
7/18/08 5:56 p.m.

If you're seriously thinking motorcycle engine then the easy answer for both gear reduction and reverse is to use a marine inboard transmission. They come in various reduction ratios, 1:1 to 3:1 or so and have reverse built right in.

ImpishSprite
ImpishSprite New Reader
7/18/08 7:11 p.m.
oldopelguy wrote: If you're seriously thinking motorcycle engine then the easy answer for both gear reduction and reverse is to use a marine inboard transmission. They come in various reduction ratios, 1:1 to 3:1 or so and have reverse built right in.

Had never even thought of that , great comment!

mad_machine
mad_machine SuperDork
7/18/08 8:19 p.m.
Chris_V wrote: Jaguar I6. Duh. http://www.britishv8.org/Other/AaronCouper.htm

Now that is just too pretty to drive. If it was the V12, I bet it wouldn't be driveable

Brust
Brust New Reader
7/18/08 9:37 p.m.

And I was just about to post "good luck with fitting the small block in there". Thanks a lot. That kind of stuff just gives dreamers hope that they might fit the small block or whatever else in.

Listen. You want a hot rod, you put the (xyz) V8/v6 in there and it will go great in a straight line. Point and shoot. I can't and won't argue anymore with a pushrod V8 having the greatest power to weight ratio of any engine out there, the LS's made anyone arguing that point tuck tail. I among them. If you want a car that is well balanced, lightweight, and will pass that hot rod on the autocross course and on the tight windy mountain road, you want a lightweight four or the rotary. Fact is, with the short wheelbase, narrow track, and skinny wheels, controlling that power will be a beast. I advocate the crop of low-torque, high horspower Japanese motors just for this reason. Any torque past a certain point is just turning rubber into smoke. Add to the v8's issues of heat (even in a corvette) and you may find your daily driver needs a gold bond (green!) injection kit for your gonads and up-the-leg a/c in order to be palatable. Ever tried the green after a hot shower? If so you know what I mean when you're trying to talk the boys down a week later.

Nissan SR20's are not quite lightweight. Aluminum block doesn't necessarily equal low weight- they built that engine for turbo, and they built it tough and heavy. The aluminum makes that 450lb iron engine a 400lb aluminum engine. Almost 150lb heavier than the A-series. And big. If you checked out my website, you'd see that the cute little Toyota 4age is taking up plenty of space in the engine bay. Major surgery for anything much bigger.

I don't hate--- you make your choices- I've seen some great V8 conversions (that I still claim I can beat any day at autocross or a mountain road) and some neat 4 cyl. Good luck, and please keep us up with progress- I'm always looking for good ideas!

Brust

Moparman
Moparman New Reader
7/18/08 10:44 p.m.

Rotary or Turbo Dodge.

carguy123
carguy123 HalfDork
7/18/08 10:44 p.m.
oldopelguy wrote: If you're seriously thinking motorcycle engine then the easy answer for both gear reduction and reverse is to use a marine inboard transmission. They come in various reduction ratios, 1:1 to 3:1 or so and have reverse built right in.

Have you ever seen that done?

Is it heavy?

Do you have any pix?

chknhwk
chknhwk New Reader
7/19/08 6:03 a.m.

I thought of the Zetec as well. There's a bit of aftermarket support for them but I'm not sure on the weight. Interested in a 1.5L Hyundai engine? I may just pull mine in favor of a 2L Tib engine.

mad_machine
mad_machine SuperDork
7/19/08 9:18 a.m.

here is another thought The M42/m44 engines that BMW stuffed into the last 4 cylinder cars they shipped to the US. They can be had for relativly cheap money (everybody wants the 6's) and because they are designed to sit over at an angle, allow you to have a relativly low hood line.

And they make a bitchin supercharger for them!

ImpishSprite
ImpishSprite New Reader
7/19/08 11:45 a.m.
mad_machine wrote: here is another thought The M42/m44 engines that BMW stuffed into the last 4 cylinder cars they shipped to the US. They can be had for relativly cheap money (everybody wants the 6's) and because they are designed to sit over at an angle, allow you to have a relativly low hood line. And they make a bitchin supercharger for them!

The problem with that idea is the placement of the rear of the engine. That slant would actually put the last 1/4-1/2 of the engine rear length into the top of the passenger footwell. The footwells on the Spridgets extend up the sides of the motors on anything longer then the A-Series engine. Oft times you have to cut out the package/heater/battery area which is extended from foot well to foot well. With the slant of the motor as angled as it is, it will leave no room what so ever for the passenger's legs without forcing them to sit with their legs directly against the outside of the footwell.

ww
ww Dork
7/19/08 2:20 p.m.

My first thought was SR20, which were widely available in the Infiniti G20 and I have a couple of friends who are running them in Datsun 510's and Roadsters pretty successfully with imported RWD tranny's. Although, I think they are still a little too big for the Sprite/Midget.

I would go with either the 1.3 Suzuki or the Zetec. Although not a lot of aftermarket support, both are reliable and small enough to fit with the right fab skills.

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