Which LS swap is cheaper?

I have an LS1 (but no t-56) getting lonely in my garage.

I was initially thinking a 944 would be the cheapest route to go (no, I don't want to put it back into a camaro or an s-10) due to the already-there transaxle.

Pros: I get to smugly tell everyone I drive a poor-schue

Cons:

-consensus seems to be that I need to find a 944s if I want the trans to have a chance at standing up to the V8, and even then...

-non running canidates are still pretty expensive compared to the S14

-Renegade hybrid kit runs ~$3000, and it's still incomplete

One of my local buddies offered me a pretty good deal on an S14: rolling chassis + full sikky kit for $3000.

Cons: -This leaves me finding a t-56 which would likely add $1000 to the build total.

-Pros: The hundreds of "oh, I forgot about that" parts are likely much cheaper than with the 944.

Which one of these two would be cheaper to get running and on the road? Bonus points if you've built/own one of the two options

Bitchin camaro?

I have a similar issue, but with GM's bastard child Gen II LT1, I had it machined for a 383, and have done nothing with it for years. I have engine but no transmission.

Searching here you should find some options of other transmissions than the T56 that could be a possibility. The Super T10 sounds appealing from stuff I read here not too long ago. Further independent research showed the Jag guys having luck with the Getrag 265, so you might be able to do something other than the T56 in that 240sx. If you're paying for custom adapters for something outside the family, you probably won't save any money vs. buying a T56.

• Lee

$500 944 in TN

RealMiniDriver wrote: $500 944 in TN

Probably not an "S", so the trans will last .02 seconds before E36 M3ting the bed.

Transportation costs to TX quickly negate that deal. Good to see that cheap ones do exist though.

Plenty of NV25xx/35xx/45xx transmissions in 4.3l S10 and full sized trucks. Beyond those there are also options for bolting the Ford RUG or Chrysler 833 4-speed overdrive transmissions or pretty much anything Toyota, Isuzu, or Jeep behind it with adapters.

It's only expensive if you make it so.

A super T-10 will work, as will a ford toploader with an adapter plate(under $100 when they come up for sale) to bolt it to a standard dimensions GM 4 speed bellhousing.

If you aren't looking for every last split hair of performance, damn near every 4 speed chevy pickup in the 80s came with a mopar 833 derived OD box with a factory Hurst shifter and special bellhousing. They typically need bearings as cruising in OD the whole trans is spun up, and wasn't really designed to run like that forever. I've read of successfully putting them in big heavy cruisers and failing to break them.

calteg wrote:

RealMiniDriver wrote: $500 944 in TN

Probably not an "S", so the trans will last .02 seconds before E36 M3ting the bed. Transportation costs to TX quickly negate that deal. Good to see that cheap ones do exist though.

Just get the 951 transmission, or a C5 trans.

Check out Texas Performance Concepts and their message board on how to do the swap much more cheaply.

http://www.texasperformanceconcepts.com

http://944hybrids.forumotion.com

A stock Audi 016 survives behind an LS in Gt40 and Lambo replicas with just a steel stiffening plate made on a drill press.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/transaxles-for-longitudinal-mid-engine-setup/44319/page1/

You can certainly improve the torque capacity of the transaxle with harder gears, limited slip differentials and oil cooling, but unless your doing drag racing starts all the time with slicks and/or running a well built LS1, it isn't needed right away.

Kenny_McCormic wrote: If you aren't looking for every last split hair of performance, damn near every 4 speed chevy pickup in the 80s came with a mopar 833 derived OD box with a factory Hurst shifter and special bellhousing. They typically need bearings as cruising in OD the whole trans is spun up, and wasn't really designed to run like that forever. I've read of successfully putting them in big heavy cruisers and failing to break them.

I am pretty sure they came only in diesels, but I am not sure on that. Either way, I own one of these transmissions and love it. With the torque of the small block, it isn't necessary to have 5 or 6 gears, and the OD you get is very very nice. Plus, they are way lighter than the T56. No, you can't have mine.

In reply to tuna55:

I distinctly remember my dad having a half ton gasser with one, he went auto after doing the 3rd or 4th clutch job (he's admittingly hard on clutches) and the bearings started going loose.

turboswede wrote: Check out Texas Performance Concepts and their message board on how to do the swap much more cheaply. http://www.texasperformanceconcepts.com http://944hybrids.forumotion.com

These are two great forums with a wealth of information.

I'll let you put it in my Jeep Wrangler. It's white, so at least it matches your Miata and Boxster...

Here's a link to a $300 LS to the Aisin/NV series of transmissions adapter.

http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/adapters/engine_to_transmission/kit_gmax15.htm

Find a Supra transmission and use that adapter... at least I think that will work!

I just posted a $1200 obo 944S up in the classifieds if that's in your price range.

Are you planning to upgrade the ls1 for more power? My s12 challenge build is using the same trans as what's in the s14 with a 4.8 truck motor. The fs5w71c is supposed to be stronger than a T5. If you pick up the s14 and can wait till November, you'll know how it goes.

calteg wrote:

RealMiniDriver wrote: $500 944 in TN

Probably not an "S", so the trans will last .02 seconds before E36 M3ting the bed.

not sure why there's so much hate of the non-turbo transaxle in the v8 944 world. the transaxle in my $2008 Challenge car stood up to several burnouts and launches on drag slicks plus the ensuing bang-shifts going down the track. this car had previously been challenged twice, so i was not the first to beat on it a bit. i can't imagine breaking one with street tires unless you drive like a full bag of douche all the time.

Regular 944 trans will last. The S trans isn't any stronger, the turbo, turbo S and S2 trans are.

Just don't dump the clutch and you'll be fine.

AngryCorvair wrote:

calteg wrote:

RealMiniDriver wrote: $500 944 in TN

Probably not an "S", so the trans will last .02 seconds before E36 M3ting the bed.

not sure why there's so much hate of the non-turbo transaxle in the v8 944 world. the transaxle in my $2008 Challenge car stood up to several burnouts and launches on drag slicks plus the ensuing bang-shifts going down the track. this car had previously been challenged twice, so i was not the first to beat on it a bit. i can't imagine breaking one with street tires unless you drive like a full bag of douche all the time.

I didn't know you did a V8 944. LSX?

DrBoost wrote: I didn't know you did a V8 944. LSX?

i ended up with the car that Crash campaigned in '04 and '05. gen 1 SBC, iron block and heads, mild non-roller cam. i got it with Crash's SBC "all blowed up" and did an engine swap clutch slipped in 4th and 5th (didn't have budget available for a new disc and wasn't going to put one in without claiming it). Mental was my PIC at the '08 challenge. went 13.96 @ 100 in the drags, feathering the throttle at the big end to keep the clutch from going up in smoke. sounded tasty with cherry bombs and turn-downs.

angry944 at $2008 autocross

angry944 at $2008 drags

I ran a t5 in my v8 s13. Warmed over lt1. I vote s14.

LS1 won't junk a WC T5 IF you don't launch it with sticky tires AND if you are running stock LS1 power levels.

Plus after you get the T5, you can later install a gforce transmissions T5 which will handle as much as a T56 for similiar money.

First off you don't want an S you want an s2 or a 951. HOWEVER the standard 944 trans can (at least in the beginning) be fine. If you eventually lunch the trans get one from a S2 (expensive) or a 951 (a lot cheaper). Both will have the hardened R&P and that is really all you are looking for as it is the part that fails. There are options like added trans oil coolers and stuff that are nice but can be added to any 944 trans. Open dif 951 trans's are $350-375. One with a LSD are $600 or so.

NOW re the standard 944 trans. The myth and legend about them blowing up at the drop of a feather is greatly exaggerated. Can they be broken? Sure but it is usually the result of dropping the clutch or much more likely spinning the tires on a slippery surface and then having them catch. Like going form dirt to pavement. Properly driven a standard 944 trans will give you plenty of service life. even at 951 (or lsx) HP and torque levels. Many NA trans's are behind turbo cars in particular the ones from the 87 924s due to them having better gearing. There are many home brew turbo and supercharged 944's running the standard trans with out issue.

What you need to consider is all the other stuff that comes with an S2 or a 951 (later ones). You get better suspension and brakes. this is worth the $$$$ to get a roller as these parts purchased separately can far out cost a roller. However if you are going to go to a custom brake and suspension setup. Say willwood or brembo with coil overs you would be tossing the stuff that is on the car anyway.

One last thing to consider is the looks and I personally REALLY REALLY prefer the look of the 951 and the S2 to the standard 944. But you loose a bit of the "sleeper". A lsx in a regular 944 would not attract nearly as much attention and I bet you would have many more stop light "victims" if you know what I mean. Hell my car is a 924s with all the bagging removed and it si a bit warmed over. I get no respect because everyone thinks it is a standard 924 from the 70's.

Keep in mind, the stock 944 brakes are more than adequate enough to pull your fillings out with good pads and in good working order.

The Wilwoods and Brembo's are nice to look at and provide better modulation capabilities at the limit, but you'd have to be a hot shoe running serious performance events.

Suspension can be improved with either buckets of money or by carefully picking and choosing the generic and factory parts that work best (the largest factory bars are stupidly cheap as are VW Super Beetle off-road torsion bars, etc.)

I can see looking for a stronger teams that you want to put the shorter 5th gear in, but I'd focus on getting the parts you need to perform the initial engine swap and then worry about upgrades and the like after get it on the road and find areas that are lacking.

What is the GRM answer for everything? I'll give you a tip: begins with an M