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  • Schmidlap

    Feb. 9, 2010 4:23 p.m. Schmidlap Reader

    poopshovel wrote:

    minimac wrote:

    poopshovel wrote: .... If I get the big trophy, the last thing I want is somebody calling me a cheatin' ass bastard for leaving something out of the budget.

    It wouldn't be the first time the winner played a little loose with "creative accounting".

    Care to expand? If you're going to call somebody a cheatin' ass bastard, call 'em a cheatin' ass bastard.

    Wasn't there a team several years ago (a Grand National, I think) that bought parts in bulk, sold off all but one at retail prices and ended up ahead? For example, they bought 100 boost gauges for $1000 total and then sold 99 of them for $40 each ($3960 total) and claimed that they then had an extra $3950 to spend on their car, so their budget ended up being $595X instead of $200X? I thought that was where the "you can only recoup $1000 through parts sales" rule came from.

    If I'm not remembering properly and am painting a team in a bad light, I apologize.

    Bob

  • MrJoshua

    Feb. 9, 2010 4:28 p.m. MrJoshua UltraDork

    The Mongrel Motorsports Monster Miata sold off parts to boost the available budget to more than they paid for the car. What they did was legal that year and brought a rule change for future years. Not cheating, not lying, just using the rules to your advantage and documenting every step of the process.

    I don't know if a Grand National team did what you say, I don't remember it but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

  • minimac

    Feb. 9, 2010 5:28 p.m. minimac Dork

    Poopie- I wasn't referring to youse guys. There have been more than a few cases of items that seem more than suspicious. I keep dumpster diving at the local nascar shop but have yet to come up with a complete set of aluminum heads/rods/fill in the blank that finds their way somehow into the scrap heap. But I keep looking............

  • DILYSI Dave

    Feb. 9, 2010 6:25 p.m. DILYSI Dave UltimaDork

    minimac wrote:

    Poopie- I wasn't referring to youse guys. There have been more than a few cases of items that seem more than suspicious. I keep dumpster diving at the local nascar shop but have yet to come up with a complete set of aluminum heads/rods/fill in the blank that finds their way somehow into the scrap heap. But I keep looking............

    I'm pretty sure poop wasn't taking it as a personal swipe, so much as if you're going to make accusations, go ahead and name names so that people can defend themselves.

  • unevolved

    Feb. 9, 2010 7:22 p.m. unevolved Reader

    Yeah, those Vitara pistons in the Howdy Civic definitely didn't come from a Nascar shop.

  • jwdmotorsports

    Feb. 9, 2010 8:12 p.m. jwdmotorsports HalfDork

    MrJoshua wrote:

    Welcome to my world, after awhile it gets really hard to walk through the garage.

    My garage space is SMALL. If I have any more than what I need to work on the current project I can't walk around the car.

  • splitime

    Feb. 9, 2010 8:26 p.m. splitime Reader

    unevolved wrote:

    Yeah, those Vitara pistons in the Howdy Civic definitely didn't come from a Nascar shop.

    Hair over 100 bucks for stronger pistons.... FTW :p

  • unevolved

    Feb. 9, 2010 8:38 p.m. unevolved Reader

    I love Hondas. I still have a hard time believing an engine we spent like $600 on survived that many drag passes back-to-back-to-back (etc) without a wastegate hooked up. I still occasionally stop what I'm doing and go, "23 passes. Whoa."

  • splitime

    Feb. 9, 2010 8:49 p.m. splitime Reader

    unevolved wrote:

    I love Hondas. I still have a hard time believing an engine we spent like $600 on survived that many drag passes back-to-back-to-back (etc) without a wastegate hooked up. I still occasionally stop what I'm doing and go, "23 passes. Whoa."

    I still remember saying you should boost more when you guys pulled into the hotel parking lot.... teehee. I was excited to see a turbo D in a white eg.... man I miss my old EGg.

  • Spinout007

    Feb. 9, 2010 10:19 p.m. Spinout007 HalfDork

    If I don't pick up an E30 for my next daily beater, I think I wanna egg! Or a wagon!

  • unevolved

    Feb. 10, 2010 12:09 a.m. unevolved Reader

    splitime wrote:

    unevolved wrote:

    I love Hondas. I still have a hard time believing an engine we spent like $600 on survived that many drag passes back-to-back-to-back (etc) without a wastegate hooked up. I still occasionally stop what I'm doing and go, "23 passes. Whoa."

    I still remember saying you should boost more when you guys pulled into the hotel parking lot.... teehee. I was excited to see a turbo D in a white eg.... man I miss my old EGg.

    Yeah, we thought about adding a bigger turbo, but there's just no room in the budget. We will be bringing back the car withits own set of slicks this time, we learned an important lesson.

  • 93celicaGT2

    Feb. 10, 2010 8:52 a.m. 93celicaGT2 UltraDork

    unevolved wrote:

    Yeah, those Vitara pistons in the Howdy Civic definitely didn't come from a Nascar shop.

    Hell yes old school D-banger build!

  • poopshovel

    Feb. 10, 2010 9:12 a.m. poopshovel UltraDork

    DILYSI Dave wrote:

    minimac wrote:

    Poopie- I wasn't referring to youse guys. There have been more than a few cases of items that seem more than suspicious. I keep dumpster diving at the local nascar shop but have yet to come up with a complete set of aluminum heads/rods/fill in the blank that finds their way somehow into the scrap heap. But I keep looking............

    I'm pretty sure poop wasn't taking it as a personal swipe, so much as if you're going to make accusations, go ahead and name names so that people can defend themselves.

    Bingo, bango, bongo.

  • ansonivan

    Feb. 10, 2010 9:38 a.m. ansonivan Reader

    poopshovel wrote:

    Bingo, bango, bongo.

    ...I'm so happy in the jungle I refuse to go Don't want no jailhouse, shotguns, fish hooks, golf clubs I've got my spear So no matter how they coax him I'll stay right here They have things like the atom bomb So I think I'll stay where I "om" Civilization, I'll stay right here ....

  • AutoXR

    Feb. 10, 2010 9:45 a.m. AutoXR Reader

    I am not going to point fingers....but if you have time , read some build threads from peoples cars in 2009 and 2008. You will find that they need to edit their 08 pricing to match the 09 pricing. I am sure more then 1 person has done it , but at the end of the day who cares. I drove 1600 miles to compete in 08 , came damm near last and still had a great time, and will be back in 010

    On another note:

    I have a D running Vitara's and tuner toys rods, paid under $200 for the whole she bang a bang. The record on these is over 600WHP , one of my pseudo team mates has put down over 500WHP on his daily driver running these (D16Z6) Stock cam , stock head.. big boost. I just picked up an STR sheet metal intake for a D series and edelbrock throttle body for $75. No one wants D series parts!!!

  • unevolved

    Feb. 10, 2010 9:50 a.m. unevolved Reader

    93celicaGT2 wrote:

    Hell yes old school D-banger build!

    That top sticker is my favorite sticker on the whole car. I love how underestimated single-cam engines continually are.

    The whole point of this competition is bragging rights. At the end of the day, there's no money on the line. It's supposed to be fun.

  • 93celicaGT2

    Feb. 10, 2010 10:15 a.m. 93celicaGT2 UltraDork

    unevolved wrote:

    93celicaGT2 wrote:

    Hell yes old school D-banger build!

    That top sticker is my favorite sticker on the whole car. I love how underestimated single-cam engines continually are.

    The whole point of this competition is bragging rights. At the end of the day, there's no money on the line. It's supposed to be fun.

    I hear ya.... i love me some DOHC motors in general, but my major tire-burner these days is a SOHC motor. I can one up, you though... i have a 12v.

    If i ever go back to hondas, it'll either have a big power D-banger, or a f/h/k/b hybrid.

  • poopshovel

    Feb. 10, 2010 10:48 a.m. poopshovel UltraDork

    I am not going to point fingers....but if you have time , read some build threads from peoples cars in 2009 and 2008. You will find that they need to edit their 08 pricing to match the 09 pricing. I am sure more then 1 person has done it , but at the end of the day who cares. I drove 1600 miles to compete in 08 , came damm near last and still had a great time, and will be back in 010

    My point was that if you don't point fingers, no one can defend themselves (should they chose to.) Personally, we found a good bit more budget between (07 and 08???) because of the rule-change on sales tax, and ACCURATE FMV (instead of "let's err on the side of caution and put these used parts in at "new" price.")

    In '04, this guy Andy Nelson showed up, and lets just say there were some 'raised eyebrows' when he ran 10's. Oddly, none(?) of the people pissing and moaning did so directly to Andy. If they had, they'd see every freakin' nut and bolt on that car meticulously documented and accounted for in his budget. 6 years later, nobody but a Challenge n00b would question whether or not his cars are legit.

    Not only is there nothing wrong with politely asking someone "How the hell did you pull that off?" - it makes perfect sense to do so, as you might learn something!

    I'm not slamming you, or minimac, or anybody else. Just saying it doesn't hurt to ask, rather than ASSuming.

    And yes, we're digging the D-series single sticks as well!!!

  • jwdmotorsports

    Feb. 10, 2010 11:22 a.m. jwdmotorsports HalfDork

    Speaking of D-Series motors.

    Do they all use the same mount points and is intake/exhaust/etc. interchangeable?

  • Feb. 10, 2010 12:28 p.m. SVreX PowerDork

    So, what is the ruling on buying in bulk?

    Can you count only the portion of the purchase that is used on the build, or do you need to utilize the recoup budget?

  • AngryCorvair

    Feb. 10, 2010 12:55 p.m. AngryCorvair SuperDork

    SVreX wrote:

    So, what is the ruling on buying in bulk?

    Can you count only the portion of the purchase that is used on the build, or do you need to utilize the recoup budget?

    i've done it both ways, but have only done the "pay for what you use" when it's relatively cheap per unit, like buying a 100' spool of 16-ga wire and only using 20', naturally only charge the budget for 20% of the cost of the spool. i haven't bought 400 MSD boxes to get the unit cost down to $99 instead of $299.

    yet.

  • poopshovel

    Feb. 10, 2010 1:11 p.m. poopshovel UltraDork

    AngryCorvair wrote:

    SVreX wrote:

    So, what is the ruling on buying in bulk?

    Can you count only the portion of the purchase that is used on the build, or do you need to utilize the recoup budget?

    i've done it both ways, but have only done the "pay for what you use" when it's relatively cheap per unit, like buying a 100' spool of 16-ga wire and only using 20', naturally only charge the budget for 20% of the cost of the spool. i haven't bought 400 MSD boxes to get the unit cost down to $99 instead of $299.

    yet.

    See also: zip-ties.

  • poopshovel

    Feb. 10, 2010 1:15 p.m. poopshovel UltraDork

    jwdmotorsports wrote:

    Speaking of D-Series motors.

    Do they all use the same mount points and is intake/exhaust/etc. interchangeable?

    I'm not sure, but I'm curious to know too. All the stuff online says "fits all D-series motors," but for most, the A1 is ancient technology. I'm doing the same swap as you are, and we have a header that came with the s0uperrturd (D16Z6.) I'll try to grab it from the Canexican in the next couple weeks and do a test-fit. I'll let you know if it works.

  • ansonivan

    Feb. 10, 2010 2:01 p.m. ansonivan Reader

    SVreX wrote:

    So, what is the ruling on buying in bulk?

    Can you count only the portion of the purchase that is used on the build, or do you need to utilize the recoup budget?

    Very interested in this one also... I want a set of reground cams... buying 10 to drop the unit cost would really help.

  • wheels777

    Feb. 10, 2010 7:19 p.m. wheels777 HalfDork

    poopshovel wrote: In '04, this guy Andy Nelson showed up, and lets just say there were some 'raised eyebrows' when he ran 10's. Oddly, none(?) of the people pissing and moaning did so directly to Andy. If they had, they'd see every freakin' nut and bolt on that car meticulously documented and accounted for in his budget. 6 years later, nobody but a Challenge n00b would question whether or not his cars are legit. Not only is there nothing wrong with politely asking someone "How the hell did you pull that off?" - it makes perfect sense to do so, as you might learn something!
    FWIW, we have had a copy of our budget in the trailer at every event. In those 6 events, only 3 people grumbled to me....I showed them the back-up, shared the build,they were happy with the explanation and now we are friends.

    I thought I could build a cheap car before I entered the Challenge. Frankly, I was taken to school by everyone who was willing to share.

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