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92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
1/20/11 8:49 p.m.

What are you using and why?

I'm getting extremely frustrated with my LC-1 and Auto Timer display, and i haven't even gotten past the install stage yet. The installation of this thing is uncalled for, and i thought i had it done tonite, and i can't even test it because the damn Auto Timer isn't turning on even though it's got a verified good power and ground source.

Apparently from what i've found, even if you AREN'T going to use the Turbo Timer feature of the display, you STILL have to wire it up as such (blue = ign output, green = acc output) in order to make it run on. WHAT? It's OUTPUT. I don't even want to talk about the utterly annoying calibration circuit that must be built.

I'm hoping that either:

1) Someone will tell me that i don't have to tap into my ignition to get this damn thing to work

or:

2) Someone will tell me about an awesome wideband that doesn't require a cheesy stupid round gauge (i really don't want another one, i already have too many) that just reads out AFRs in red digital LED. A "box" is preferable. $300 or less and needs to be capable of narrowband simulation so my stupid 20 year old Japanese hunk of crap will run for longer than 10 minutes without throwing a check engine light, dumping all the fuel it can, and pulling timing harder than an "adult entertainer" at your local seedy nightclub.

I have to admit, the Auto Timer is the main cause of my frustrations right now. The LC-1 wasn't that bad, but it was still needlessly complicated and near impossible to make the install look good.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic SuperDork
1/20/11 8:56 p.m.

We have been using the LC-1 for my Formula team with no problems.

Zomby woof
Zomby woof Dork
1/20/11 9:04 p.m.

One of my buddies does a lot of MS, and standalone installation and tuning. He won't touch an LC-1

The (free) one in my car had been back for warranty repair twice. He gave it to me.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
1/20/11 9:14 p.m.
Zomby woof wrote: One of my buddies does a lot of MS, and standalone installation and tuning. He won't touch an LC-1 The (free) one in my car had been back for warranty repair twice. He gave it to me.

Great... so between you and 93excivic, we're at a wash.

I suppose the fact that there's been literally 40+ threads in the last month on the Innovate forums with people complaining or having problems with the LC-1 speaks volumes.

I'm sure at least half of them are install issues (because it's needlessly complicated and the instructions suck) and therefor user error, but i've seen a LOT of the units have to go back for replacement. Great. Just what i want for my DD.

Oh yeah, another good one: Why is there THREE ground wires? Three ground wires that Innovate says to ground all at the same location? Sure. That makes sense.

DILYSI Dave
DILYSI Dave SuperDork
1/20/11 9:37 p.m.

I really like my AEM UEGO Gauge, but it's round, and you don't want that.

m4ff3w
m4ff3w SuperDork
1/20/11 9:50 p.m.

Zeitronix ZT-2.

I recently sold it to fund Christmas for my kids, but the unit is great.

Further, Zeitronix's customer service is great. I bought the unit used and couldn't get it to work. Zeitronix said to send it to them and let them check it out. It was broken and they fixed it for free, 3 years after the warranty expired.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic SuperDork
1/20/11 10:13 p.m.

I will ask my engine guy how he gets it to work and get back to you.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
1/20/11 10:48 p.m.
DILYSI Dave wrote: I really like my AEM UEGO Gauge, but it's round, and you don't want that.

And last i knew, it doesn't do narrowband simulation, which means i can't use it anyways. I'm not on megasquirt or anything that special. I have a stock ECU designed in 1988. I need a narrowband signal going to the ECU, and i'm not putting another bung in my exhaust.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
1/20/11 10:49 p.m.
93EXCivic wrote: I will ask my engine guy how he gets it to work and get back to you.

Does he use the Auto Timer display? I'm sure i've got the LC-1 ready to go, i just have no way to prove it right now because of the damn display.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
1/20/11 10:52 p.m.
m4ff3w wrote: Zeitronix ZT-2. I recently sold it to fund Christmas for my kids, but the unit is great. Further, Zeitronix's customer service is great. I bought the unit used and couldn't get it to work. Zeitronix said to send it to them and let them check it out. It was broken and they fixed it for free, 3 years after the warranty expired.

I was looking at the ZT-2, but it's like... $400. That's not gonna fly. I'm already not REAL pleased that if i replace the LC-1, it's going to likely come at a hit to the challenge budget, so i'm trying to keep that hit as minimal as possible.

The ZT-3 could be a contender, but it's got that damn round gauge display again. Price is nice at $270, though, and it does all the same things except run through that LCD display, which i don't really care about.

Zomby woof
Zomby woof Dork
1/20/11 10:56 p.m.

My buddy tells me this is the best available right now.

http://wbo2.com/

http://wbo2.com/2j/default.htm

DILYSI Dave
DILYSI Dave SuperDork
1/20/11 11:15 p.m.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:
DILYSI Dave wrote: I really like my AEM UEGO Gauge, but it's round, and you don't want that.

And last i knew, it doesn't do narrowband simulation, which means i can't use it anyways. I'm not on megasquirt or anything that special. I have a stock ECU designed in 1988. I need a narrowband signal going to the ECU, and i'm not putting another bung in my exhaust.

I think it will, but I'm not sure.

<--- has 2 exhaust bungs.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
1/21/11 5:48 a.m.
DILYSI Dave wrote:
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:
DILYSI Dave wrote: I really like my AEM UEGO Gauge, but it's round, and you don't want that.

And last i knew, it doesn't do narrowband simulation, which means i can't use it anyways. I'm not on megasquirt or anything that special. I have a stock ECU designed in 1988. I need a narrowband signal going to the ECU, and i'm not putting another bung in my exhaust.

I think it will, but I'm not sure.

<--- has 2 exhaust bungs.

You'd have to see my exhaust to understand. Putting another bung in means ripping my entire turbo setup off the car again, which isn't bad, but i just got done putting it back together. And for that matter, i don't think my factory o2 harness is in existence anyways.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
1/21/11 6:00 a.m.
Zomby woof wrote: My buddy tells me this is the best available right now. http://wbo2.com/ http://wbo2.com/2j/default.htm

It looks like serious stuff for sure, that site is making my head spin.

Cheapest equivalent is going to be over $400 shipped, though. ARG.

I wish they would "approve" my account over at the Innovate forums so i can found out if i can just show the other cables on the Auto Timer a 12v signal from the jumpers i've got installed. That would take all of 30 seconds to do.

Raze
Raze Dork
1/21/11 6:22 a.m.

On our MS'd XR4 we have a PLX-M300 (NON-Tuner Edition so it's all black), it's a box, it sits on our dash, it reads AFR in pretty red, simple to install, works excellent.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
1/21/11 6:23 a.m.
Raze wrote: On our MS'd XR4 we have a PLX-M300 (NON-Tuner Edition so it's all black), it's a box, it sits on our dash, it reads AFR in pretty red, simple to install, works excellent.

I was hoping someone would mention that one. Was the installation pretty much just run your power/ground, and connect to sensor?

Thanks!

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 HalfDork
1/21/11 6:29 a.m.

I've got an old Innovate LM-1 and I've had no complaints. Simple install. Works great. Display is a handheld box with an LCD. I'm guessing they don't make it anymore?

Raze
Raze Dork
1/21/11 6:35 a.m.

In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:

Yup.

http://www.plxdevices.com/InstallationInstructions/M-200_250_300UsersGuide.pdf

so easy a caveman can do it...

what sold us was the self-calibrating capability, the LC units at the time required periodic calibration...

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
1/21/11 6:37 a.m.
1988RedT2 wrote: I've got an old Innovate LM-1 and I've had no complaints. Simple install. Works great. Display is a handheld box with an LCD. I'm guessing they don't make it anymore?

Pretty recently replaced with the LM-2, actually. They made the LM-1 for a looooooong time.

This is the display that i'm having problems with. It's small and fit nicely in my sunroof control bezel, in my field of view. That's kindof the "style" that i'm looking for, though.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
1/21/11 6:40 a.m.
Raze wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: Yup. http://www.plxdevices.com/InstallationInstructions/M-200_250_300UsersGuide.pdf so easy a caveman can do it... what sold us was the self-calibrating capability, the LC units at the time required periodic calibration...

And they still do.

I think i'm going to try to find a used M300, then. I'm not big on paying extra for the Tuner Edition new right now, and i think that's all they show available on their site.

Raze
Raze Dork
1/21/11 6:44 a.m.

Ah, the newer Tuner Edition has a fuel selection switch to automatically change AFR based on lambda of the fuel, that was something the original M-300 is lacking (if you run other fuels it might be a nice feature)

DaveEstey
DaveEstey Reader
1/21/11 6:53 a.m.

I use a Cobb AccessPort, works great!

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
1/21/11 6:53 a.m.
Raze wrote: Ah, the newer Tuner Edition has a fuel selection switch to automatically change AFR based on lambda of the fuel, that was something the original M-300 is lacking (if you run other fuels it might be a nice feature)

Those instructions are a little confusing....

But i think i got it:

1) install sensor
2) connect harnesses
3) Red wire to 12v power, black wire to ground, and grey (narrowband simulation) to ECU harness

Power up and go?

So basically... 5 minutes work at most.

Found one new on Ebay for $273 shipped, and it's a Tuner Edition, which will be nice for when i go E85 down the road. I'll jump on that tonite unless anyone else comes up with a better idea or can tell me how to get the Auto Timer working without berkeleying my ignition harness. (which would be ideal, since it's all installed and wired already)

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
1/21/11 6:55 a.m.
DaveEstey wrote: I use a Cobb AccessPort, works great!

Heh, don't i wish...

Stuff's limited when you're working with a PRE obd1 car.

m4ff3w
m4ff3w SuperDork
1/21/11 7:08 a.m.

http://14point7.com/SLC-Pure-Plus.php

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